Episode 90: Mixing Family & Business with Axis CEO Kristin Hanson

Kristin has not one, not two, not three, but FOUR family members involved in her ABA organization that she started in 2017. We dish on the tips/tricks needed to make that successful and what it means to build a values-aligned organization that's invested in your team members. Enjoy, kind listener!

Resources:

> Axis' Website: www.axistherapycenters.com

Building Better Businesses in ABA is edited and produced by KJ Herodirt Productions

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Transcript

0:03

Welcome back to Building Better Businesses in ABA with me, Jonathan Mueller. It's a weekly podcast about the forces reshaping our autism services field. Learn from successful entrepreneurs, payers, investors, and leaders in applied behavior analysis. Thank you, kind listener, for letting me into your world today. Now onto the show.

Jonathan: 0:30

My guest today is Kristen Hanson. Kristen is a BCBA and the CEO, founder, and clinical director of Axis Therapy Centers. She's on the board of directors for the Autism Society of Iowa. She's on the autism expert panel for the Iowa regional autism assistance program. And she's a former board member of the Iowa association for behavior analysis. Kristen founded Axis in 2017 Axis is a multidisciplinary clinic providing ABA social skills groups, occupational therapy, speech therapy, and currently has four clinic locations across Iowa. Kristen lives in Maxwell with her husband and three kiddos, and in her free time, she enjoys going to baseball games, attending concerts, reading, and coaching her children's sports teams. Kristen, welcome to the pod. Thank you,

Kristin: 1:13

jonathan. And thank you for having me. So

Jonathan: 1:15

excited. Yeah, I'm excited too. you know, one of the things that when we first met that you told me like your goal was never to be a CEO or a business owner. And that's so resonated with me because like, I feel like this is a story of so many BCBA business owners and non BCBA business owners like myself. I ever really set out to do that. But it just, we sort of happened to do it. What was your goal in starting Axis?

Kristin: 1:38

Well, I mean, you are absolutely right. Being a CEO, being a business owner, it was never a goal, never thought I had in my mind. all I knew is that I wanted to be a BCBA and I wanted to help kids and families. So before starting Access, I'd been working as a BCBA and I was doing all the direct treatment for the kiddos on my caseload, but I saw that there was such a need for ABA services in our state and I just felt like I needed to make a greater impact. I wanted to create a place for families and children with autism to come for services where they could feel safe and supported. And while it just started as a small little ABA clinic with myself, I mean, within a few months we had technicians, we had speech therapy, eventually at occupational therapy. So I never imagined, I could never picture Axis growing into what it is today, but honestly it all happened so organically.

Jonathan: 2:36

I want listeners to understand. I love this portion, what you described, like you want it to make a greater impact. And if there's ever a sniff test for like, is someone getting into our field that started organization for the right reasons? It comes down to that. I didn't want to be a business owner necessarily or CEO or anything big and fancy. It was just, you want it to make a bigger impact or a bigger difference in kids lives. So I think that's really powerful. And tell me Kristin now that you are a successful CEO. Business owner of a practice. what does wild success at Access look like to you?

Kristin: 3:06

I would say. For me, wild success is knowing that every single individual that comes into Axis, whether it be a client, a family member, um, a staff member, that they feel some sort of positive impact. So, I want clients and families to feel a positive and significant change. And I want staff to feel valued and to know that they're a part of. Making that impact on somebody else's lives. So I just, I want them to feel empowered. So I guess wild success to me is that anybody that comes into contact or experiences any aspect of Axis is. It's impacted positively.

Jonathan: 3:49

This is why we're so like minded. This is what we talk about, and especially in the context of candidates and recruiting, when we talk about Ascend and Element, it's like, if someone is positively impacted by an interaction with us, even if they choose never to come work with us, or we choose that maybe they're not the right fit, they should somehow benefit from that interaction. That just feels like what makes our communities in our world. a better place. Um, and so I love that. I absolutely love that. so something that's kind of unique about you, is that your brother is your business partner. I got to meet Eric at the autism investor summit in LA in April. Oh my gosh. That's such a fun conversation with him. I feel like I get to talk to him. Yeah. Yeah. but as your business partner, you gotta give me all the digs, dude. I'm not looking for gossip, but just like what is it like working with a family member and then like what tips and tricks would you share with listeners about getting that working relationship right?

Kristin: 4:40

Well, I actually have three business partners. And they are all family. So, that's something unique about Axis is that, there's four owners. It's myself, my brother, my mom, and then my sister in law. So Eric's wife. a lot of people say It's not smart to mix family and business, but in my situation, there would not have been a business without family. but I would say my brother was probably the strongest factor, the person pushing me to start Axis. I mean, my family were the ones that had the business background. So I was just the clinician with a passion and they were the experienced business owners. And so it was just the perfect combination. Um, but yeah, my brother is the one that is with me on most of the day to day stuff. And I mean, I gotta say it's pretty awesome. So we have both said that. That this has brought us closer together, like our relationship. I mean, growing up, he was almost four years older. So, we weren't that close growing up. So it's pretty cool now working with my brother, we've taught each other so much. I've learned so much from him, business side. And I think he's probably learned so much from me, I guess, clinic side. And he's had so many. Business ventures in the past. And he said multiple times that this is the first time that he's actually felt the spark or felt the passion for the business and, made it a bigger thing for him because now it's creating a legacy for our family. And he, he just loves that aspect. And, um. I don't know. We've learned a lot about each other over the past, almost six years running a business together. And I think you kind of saw by hanging out with us as we, we balance each other out as he's business guy and expand and, and grow and big, big business. And I am. Like clinician side and significant change and that quality. And so we just learned so much from each other. And honestly, I love knowing that at the end of the day, no matter what either one of us have said or did that may have pissed each other off is that. I'm 100 percent positive that we will always have each other's backs. We'll always support each other. It's unconditional love and support. It's like, we can't quit on each other. Any other business partner you could quit, but I mean, we can't, we can't quit on each other. So it's pretty awesome.

Jonathan: 7:04

I wanna hear your tips and tricks, but I remember one of the conversations we had in thinking about balance, which is so important in any partnership, no matter if that person's family or not, he's one that wants to grow. And you told me one point, you're the one that's thinking about, well, who is that clinical director whom I'm going to put in that center to be successful? Right. And you need both of those perspectives. Um, complimentary perspectives. I found that always maximizes the chance that an organization is going to achieve the outcomes. Uh, but anyway, sorry to interrupt you. Tell me about those tips and tricks.

Kristin: 7:34

You're right. I mean, before I go into that, I just want to touch base that it is. Perfect balance because he is the one that has pushed me out of my comfort zone and has actually developed me into a business owner. And recently we just did, an all staff training where we bring all four locations together. We spend the whole day together, doing different workshops and trainings. And something that we do annually is we'll do the DISC personality assessment with our staff. And, my mom. used to be a lecturer on that. And so she gives that presentation. And so it's really fun to learn about what every single person within your organization, what type of personality they are. And then we go into, the best ways to communicate with different personalities and how you're perceived and how you should maybe alter the way you communicate. but I was going to say like my personality type on this assessment has changed over the past two years. And. It's honestly, it's, my experience as a business person and running a business. I I, I've had to change my ways and the way my mind works. And while my second characteristic is still there, my, my dominant one has changed. And so it's pretty awesome to kind of literally, again, I love data. So to see that data on my own growth, as far as tips and tricks or advice to get that working relationship, right, definitely think there needs to be. Clear and honest communication. Something that my family, especially Eric has learned from me is over communication is best with me. not that I'm always going to have a response or anything, but I just, I want to be in the know. And so communication back and forth. and also an understanding of expectations and knowing what your lane is, what your role is and who's going to support who and what, and who's going to take the lead. So just knowing expectations, understanding them, but. As long as everyone's on the same page and working towards the same mission and have the same values, then you're golden.

Jonathan: 9:38

You are golden. I have to come back to the disc before I come to the working relationship. I am a huge and passionate fan of disc and we use that actually, that element frequently as a way, not as a way to categorize people, but more as a way, it sounds like the way you're doing it, helping you best communicate. Um, and yeah. receive information from others. And just for our listeners who aren't familiar, you know, you can do a basic free test online. the four different types are dominance, D, influence, I, steadiness, S, and conscientiousness, C. and then you have like your true style, I think they call it, or your natural style. And then you have adaptive, like how you adapt to the workplace. Now my style is actually A thousand percent consistent, natural and adaptive. And it's a big I influence and then a little d. What's yours, Kristin?

Kristin: 10:31

Well, I used to be an S I, dominant S, um, and now I'm a dominant D I. And so the I is, like your fun, loving, party, you know, person, fun. I, I'm glad I didn't lose that. Cause that's definitely there. But before when I was the steady, mediator, everybody's gonna, let's see your both sides. Now I I've taken on more of the dominance. Like we got to take the lead. We're going to give direction. We're going to make sure there's follow through and. And I guess I'm, I'm really proud of that too, is because to me, you kind of have to be a D to be a strong leader.

Jonathan: 11:09

You do. It's, it's a common personality type. Um, I feel like when meeting CEOs of organizations and one of the things I love about the disc and would love your reflection on this, if you see it that way too, is within 30 seconds, you can understand where someone is. And it's based on two questions. on one axis is, are they, open or guarded. And on the other axis is are they fast paced or slower paced? And so totally open and, fast paced that's my style. That's I influence. And that's me. And like, I, you know, wear my heart on my sleeve and I'll say what's on my mind. but what's really interesting is, I know a D, because, oh, okay, I'm going to see someone who's fast paced but is a little guarded. And these are the folks usually that are getting right to the heart of it at the beginning of a meeting. And a D, their biggest fear is being wrong. And the biggest thing they crave are options. And so it always helps to set this reference point for me as I'm talking to someone. But I don't know, tell me more about how you use DISC.

Kristin: 12:10

So we use it in this. Specific scenario with our staff is we use that where we wanted everyone to know what their personality type was. And then we actually had them go to a corner and with the picture of the letter so that everyone in the room could see what personality type everyone is. And then my mom would be talking about the characteristics of that person and talking about ways that they. like to be communicated to and ways that they communicate to others. and so it was really cool to look around the room and I see a lot of, my back end people, like the insurance specialist, admin people, like their C's and they're like, heck yeah, their C's. They like procedures. They like to get it done. They like to know we're going to do it right this way. And this is the way it's going to be done. And we're going to get it done. Right. And I know it's going to be done right. And then we've got our I's over there that's like, yep, there are party planners, but they don't always remember to get the session notes done. Um, yeah. It was really cool. Um, then we, we moved into kind of a training and a workshop on communication. So effective communication with each other. best ways to get your message across an email. If you're sending an email to a D, don't write six paragraphs. Um, the D just wants to know the heart of the message. And, um, if a D is emailing an I, they might read it as you're mad at them. When in fact, you're just like, I got to shoot this out real quick. So maybe throw a smiley face at the end, you know what I mean? So it's just learning how to better communicate with each other, at every level. So don't take things personal and maybe cater the way you're communicating with somebody if you feel like it's not being, you know, received the way that you were hoping.

Jonathan: 13:57

You know, I know some of our listeners are listening right now and they're like, Jonathan, Kristin, that takes so much time. And how do we take people away from their caseloads and all this other stuff? And my answer to that is we are freaking people, businesses at heart. Right. And that's where most of our costs go. That's the entirety of whether or not we're successful or not successful is if we have well qualified values aligned people to deliver services to our families. And so how my perspective is, how can you not spend all this time since we are people, human services business, right? Absolutely. Well, speaking of this, you've got seven BCBAs. Um, and one of the things that like really blows me away, all of them, Kristin, started as behavior technicians with you. what's been the secret to your sauce and homegrown growing your own

Kristin: 14:46

luck? No, I'm just kidding. Um, honestly, I would say taking the time to really connect with them, when they come in as technicians, giving them quality training, helping them identify where their strengths are with skills, where they still need to grow, where they want to grow, what are their goals, short term, long term, knowing that a lot want to go back to school, getting partnerships with colleges. just empowering them and that could be training, coaching, making sure that they have the resources they need to succeed and always, always, always making sure they know their value. I just think it's very vital to have a strong, solid foundation of values that your entire team, your entire organization knows what they are, they understand what they mean and they are able to make them actionable on a day to day basis.

Jonathan: 15:42

I want to pinpoint this here. Make sure your staff understand their value. I think it's really easy in, I mean, how hard it is running organizations and as leaders, the million and one things we have in our checklists. and look, our ABA field, it's hard right now to be successful in our ABA field. and that just means that it's really easy to skip over the most fundamental thing, which is telling your people what they mean to you and what they mean to their clients. You can't do that enough. You literally can't. Like that's just the physics, I think, of human relationships. So I love hearing that you, you do that. And when I hear you more broadly, Kristin, describe this organization, AXIS, that you've built, you know what comes to my mind is this term of like an organization of intention. Um, cause I think most organizations and most systems in life and in the world beyond just like businesses, they tend toward entropy, toward chaos, right? if they're not the right systems in place, the right reinforcement, the right, all of that stuff that goes into creating good systems, right? But. Anyway, what I hear in my mind is this organization of intention. what have you gotten right? and what have been ongoing challenges that you've experienced when it comes to building your leadership staff?

Kristin: 16:59

Um, definitely investing in. The staff, all staff, first of all. So There's a quote that was shared with me that I love that is if you create leaders, people will stay. and so I love the idea of everyone in your team, make them a leader, train them to be a leader. Cause you can be a leader of anything. it goes back to just empowering them, give them the tools necessary to succeed and then let them soar. so I have been blessed with some amazing individuals that have made the choice to be a part of Axis and they give it their all and making sure again, that they know their value and to continue to build them up so that they can just be their very best and excel at the skills that they're great at is. is what it comes down to. I guess some challenges that, that I've experienced would probably be not putting the right people in the right positions. So either that be putting someone that's not the best fit for a higher leadership position, or waiting too long to put somebody in that leadership position that should have been there earlier. So learning from, I wouldn't say mistakes, but just learning from things that didn't work out the way you wanted them to.

Jonathan: 18:21

Yeah, you know, there's this misconception, Kristin, that I've seen, not just in ABA, across all organizations, all businesses out there, that it's like leadership is this designation. And frankly, that's BS. in fact, designated leadership, like you have the title, is actually the weakest form of leadership. There, there are other forms, right? Like, peer leadership, active followership. there are plenty of, Every My point is everyone is a leader and you just tact at that, right? mm-Hmm, But people won't necessarily think that, Hey, as an RBTI can be a leader because I'm planning a party, or because I'm helping to provide in great input into the next iteration of our residency program or whatever it is. literally, everyone can be a leader, and I think it's our responsibility as leaders to help them understand that. And then. Create a context environment in which they can step up and be their best leader. Yes,

Kristin: 19:16

absolutely. There's been so many positions within or titles within our organization that have just come about organically and developed because of people wanting to step up and take on more because They feel like they have those leadership qualities. And so we've just developed so many different positions and levels that yeah, take the lead, soar. you've got the skills, go for it because it's such a cohesive unit within an organization when people feel that they have the freedom to take the lead and make that positive impact and change and to use their skills to the best that they can.

Jonathan: 19:55

So true. Take the lead, soar, you've got the skills for it. Dude, I'm going to put that like up on my wall. I don't know if you've seen Ted Lasso, but you know, he's got that believe statement. It is above his office. I'm going to do that. Take the lead, soar, you got the skills for it. That is like pure motivation. By the way, Kristin, so sorry, slightly changing topics here. But, I think I just learned recently that y'all actually have your three year BHCOE accreditation, which is the highest level of accreditation that there is. And for listeners that aren't familiar, number one, go out and just get accredited, right? Whether it's BHCOE or ACQ or something, just go do it. This shows such a powerful signal for quality. but three years is hard to get because you have to pass certain thresholds in. Feedback from your families and from your team members, right? And it's a nerve wracking process. So I got to ask you, what was your experience going through BHCOE accreditation and why the heck did you even decide to do it in the first place?

Kristin: 20:48

So we, when we very first opened, we went through with it and we got the one year and. I was like, come on, we're going to do better than that. And so we reapplied the next year and yes, we did finally get the three year. It felt so good. we sought that out because we want to continue to have evidence that we are the highest quality and we are going to do the best that we can, by all standards. I mean, we've literally had a huge company come in and critique every single thing of our business and our care from every aspect, from families to staff to policies, procedures. but also it holds us accountable too. It holds us accountable to continue to strive and make sure that we are Again, always at the top and doing the best that we can.

Jonathan: 21:40

It's so funny how our stories are so similar. So we got actually BHDOE, I don't know if they still do, but they had a preliminary accreditation. We got that in early 2018 when we were still small. And then 2019 we went through the full accreditation and we got a one year just like y'all did. And then in 2020 we got the three year and for good measure, we went after telehealth accreditation and we got that too. That was like, it was amazing. Yeah. Congratulations. Thanks. Thanks. Oh my gosh, thank you. It's a lot of, I mean, you, you know it best. It is a freaking lot of work, but it's like, you know, put your money where your mouth is, is my opinion on this. But, you know, you made this comment, hey, we can do better. And I think this is really important. And that is accreditation isn't this destination. Accreditation is simply a commitment to continuous improvement. And as an organization, especially as a human services organization, entrusted with the lives of kiddos with autism. I don't know if an organization isn't actively demonstrating every single day we are committed to 1 percent better every day, or we're committed to continuous improvement. Then I'll that, I don't know that, if I were the parent of a child with autism, not that I can speak for them, but I don't know that I would want my kiddo coming to a place that wasn't very openly committed to continuous improvement.

Kristin: 22:55

Absolutely. I 100 percent agree with that.

Jonathan: 22:58

Well, Kristen, what's one thing every ABA business owner should start doing and one thing to stop doing?

Kristin: 23:03

I would say if you're not already doing this, Take the time to listen to your staff. Take their feedback into consideration. Make change, make improvements. something that we do at AXIS is that we have check in meetings, and that can be with your direct supervisor. It can be with me. It can be with the ownership team as we want to really promote that open communication and We want to hear from them because AXIS or any organization, wouldn't be what it is without every single level, every single staff member on the team. But listen to them, listen to their ideas, listen to their concerns. They are going to be the ones that, a lot of the times, Techs have amazing ideas. they're the ones that are talking to the parents, pick up, drop off. they're gonna have amazing ideas. They're in the day to day and the thick of it and the trenches. But listen to your staff and take the time to invest in them. It does take a lot to close down four clinics. for a whole day and to bring everybody together and to buy them lunch and to not have revenue coming in for a whole day. But the impact that makes is it's empowering. there's staff that haven't even met each other cause we have four. Locations. And so bring them together for team building. we ended the day with a big barbecue at a park and our families joined and just that feeling of cohesiveness and togetherness and everybody's kids are playing together and we got to meet husbands and boyfriends and girlfriends and wives and just take the time to create that strong culture because your staff are going to have some hard days. They're gonna be burnt out. They're going to feel like they're at their wits end, but that's going to be the thing that they're holding onto is that sense of community, that sense of support and like their work family. So we say that all the time is that you're part of the Axis family. So take the time to invest in your staff, to create that. sense of security and support with them. just take the time to listen to your staff and get to know them and they feel

Jonathan: 25:13

valued. I'm not sure how you run a successful organization without doing that. Right. If, or without listening to them, especially because to your point, they're the experts. In fact, I, and I'm not sure if I've I mentioned this before on the pod, early on in the ascend days, I used to do like almost secret, not secret shopper. Like I would let the RBT know we were all at home based, but I would say, Hey, I'm going to just show up at the end of your session and just say hi to the family. Say hi to you. Would love to hear how things are going. And do you know what families, would consistently, the question they would ask their techs and most organizations aren't aware of this, Hey, how well does your ABA provider treat you? Because families know. families feel like they have a relationship not with the organization, but with their behavior technician. And it was an eyeopening experience. It was eyeopening for me because it forced me to then get in this mindset of always thinking how is an RBT or a BCBA gonna answer that question the next time a family asks and what can I do to make sure that they say, Oh my gosh, I love being here and I feel well supported and I love coming every day. So

Kristin: 26:18

I get it. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think that it's, it's important to send out those staff satisfaction surveys, we send them out every six months and we take the time. We read through every single one and we let staff know we read it. We heard you. This is a summary of what we're hearing. And We want make them aware that we're actively listening. We'll make a change. If we can make the change, we'll do it for you. same thing with those caregiver satisfaction surveys. You've got to get those out too. They are your stakeholders. This is who you're doing it for. If they're not happy, then you're losing your whole point of doing

Jonathan: 26:55

what you're doing. Amen So what's one thing that, uh, ABA organizations should stop doing?

Kristin: 27:02

Well, that's a hard one to answer. So every business is different. Everybody's got their own unique set of practices. So it's hard for me to, to really pinpoint that. I

Jonathan: 27:13

don't know. Fair enough. Fair enough. Well, how about this? If someone's not being inquisitive, be curious Yes, yes, for sure. Where can people find you online?

Kristin: 27:26

Well, our website is www. axistherapycenters. com. It's A X I S. and we're also on LinkedIn. My LinkedIn is Kristin Hanson, BCBA. And we are also on Facebook.

Jonathan: 27:42

And I'll make sure to drop all those in the show notes and, uh, Hanson is spelled H A N S O N. Kristen is spelled K R I S T I N. And so it's now time. Kristen, are you ready for the hot take questions? Yeah, let's do it. Alright, you're on your deathbed. What's the one thing you want to be remembered for?

Kristin: 28:05

The love for my family. I want my family to know how much they meant to me and how much I loved them and appreciated them.

Jonathan: 28:14

What's your most important self care practice?

Kristin: 28:18

That would be taking time for myself, which is very hard. just shutting off work and being present and in the moment with my kids is just like a hard reset for me. Works every time.

Jonathan: 28:30

Do you have a favorite song and or music genre?

Kristin: 28:35

I can get down to just about any genre of music, but I will always be a small town country girl at heart. I do know every word to We Didn't Start the Fire. So, if I had to pick a favorite song or karaoke song, you better believe I'm going for that one.

Jonathan: 28:53

It's a history lesson and an inspiring, uplifting melody at the same time. It

Kristin: 28:58

is! Absolutely.

Jonathan: 29:03

What's one thing you'd tell your 18 year old self?

Kristin: 29:07

I would say for the love of God, girl, learn to budget your money right now.

Jonathan: 29:12

It's, it's, that's not something like it gets taught in schools and I don't understand why. No.

Kristin: 29:19

Oh my gosh, no.

Jonathan: 29:22

Well said. Well Kristen, if you could only wear one style of footwear, what would

Kristin: 29:28

it be? Probably slippers. I'm a slippers girl. Slippers or slides.

Jonathan: 29:34

Function and comfort all the time. I love it. Well friend, thank you so much for coming on the pod. It has been awesome catching up with you.

Kristin: 29:41

Yeah, thanks for having me. It's always fun talking to you.

29:48

Hey, kind listener. Thanks for tuning in. If you like this episode, can you do me a favor? Give me a rating on your favorite podcast channel. It helps more values aligned people like you find the pod. Till next time, peace.