Episode 89: "Ascending in Allyship" with Ascend's DEI Co-Chair Belen BuenRostro

I'm SO honored that Belen agreed to come on the Pod; she's been a leader in Ascend for years and recently became co-chair of our DEI committee. I love how she talks about the importance of asking for what you want and her advice to those considering starting a DEI committee. In short: ask your colleagues and teammates what DEI means to them, start the conversation. Isn't that how all powerful change happens in life, by starting a conversation? Enjoy, kind listener!

Resources:

Belen on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bilingualbcba/

Draymond Green on Black History Month: https://sports.yahoo.com/draymond-green-black-history-month-171246466.html

Civic Cipher: https://power983.com/civic-cipher/

Calling In vs. Calling Out: https://edib.harvard.edu/files/dib/files/calling_in_and_calling_out_guide_v4.pdf?m=1625683246

Building Better Businesses in ABA is edited and produced by KJ Herodirt Productions

Intro/outro Music Credit: song "Tailor Made" by Yari and bensound.com

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Transcript

Jonathan: 0:30

My guest today is Belen Buenrostro. Belen's a bilingual BCBA with passions for social impact, ethical and quality service and DEI. Belen is a first generation graduate with great pride in her Mexican heritage. When not having a blast providing services to kiddos and their families, she enjoys an active lifestyle through weightlifting and hiking or getting out to any lake and enjoying the warm Arizona weather. Belen, welcome to the pod.

Belen: 0:57

Thank you, Jonathan. I'm excited to be here.

Jonathan: 0:59

Oh, I am over the moon to be here to have a fellow Ascender, a partner at Ascend. And, uh, and, and I'm psyched for the conversation, a conversation that I am deeply passionate about and is close to my heart. but I want to dive in, Belen, like what inspired you to want to become co chair of Ascend's DEI committee?

Belen: 1:18

so kind of a lot of things, but the simple answer would be Just that I wanted to see changes and have my ideas heard, and I can't expect to be heard if I'm not part of the conversation or including myself, so that was my first thought, is that if I want my ideas heard, I have to jump right in.

Jonathan: 1:38

I love it. You know, I had an old mentor from way, way back when my first manager's ever, who used to tell me, Jonathan, don't bring me problems. Bring me solutions. And he kind of created in me this, like this sense that, all right, well, if I want to do something about it, similar to what you just described, it's time to do it. So it's, that's awesome that you've dived into it. Well, one of the things that, that is newer as of the past, um, uh, just 2023 is you started this monthly series at Ascend called Ascending an Allyship. Tell me more about that. Of course.

Belen: 2:07

So it really just came out of just creating our DEI committee at Ascend and assigning jobs or things that we are passionate about, things we want to learn about, and we decided to do just a monthly training or a monthly talk. really engaging others in conversation as well throughout the agency. and since our company is called Ascend, Ascending and Allyship was the perfect name. You should have seen my face when we finally came up with the name. I was like, this is perfect. but it's really just a chance for everyone to come together, to learn about maybe things that They don't get to talk about in their lives or in other spaces. So really just creating this safe space to learn, to advocate for others, to be an ally to others who maybe need you. More than anything, and really be humble learners in this process. So it's been nice to connect with others through this process and collaborate as a team to make it happen every month.

Jonathan: 3:11

But then let's unpack this term ally a little bit. I want you to help me get this right. As I think about this and being an ally as an example, like, you know, I'm, I am a white man of privilege. And so I, I don't have the same lived experiences, that maybe you do or that others in the organization or, or anywhere else in the country or the world have. but I have conviction that, That's important to me. And so that's how I think about being an ally, but how would you think about what it means to be an ally?

Belen: 3:39

Yeah. Similarly, just what you described, you opening up your platform to others as being an ally, um, opening up your platform to Gay, lesbian, et cetera, black, brown, Pacific Islander, all these, people that maybe don't have a safe space or don't get to voice their opinions as often or be heard. so anytime we give some space to listen and to just sit back and hear another person's viewpoint, their struggles, advocate for themselves. Um, and us just listening and then turning that into action and advocating is really what being an ally is, just creating safe spaces for these people.

Jonathan: 4:24

You know, I, uh, I get the chills. You describing that. And I remember when I first came into the workforce, like 25 years ago, I had a dear friend and colleague, a mentor really, who explained to me that if she or I, she was also white, um, but we're at a table and someone made a joke. Right. that didn't represent allyship. Like it was up to us to actually speak out. that was so powerful because I don't think I even had that context 25 years ago. It's almost like, oh gosh, the book, how to be an anti racist, like it's not enough to not be racist. Like you literally in this day and age, you have to be anti racist, right. In order to combat. Um, just the historical context that comes with that. And that was really powerful to me, but I don't know, is that part of allyship? I guess is my question is actually we, we need to, and we're obligated to go out of our way to call things in when we see them.

Belen: 5:18

Yeah, I think it's definitely helpful. I don't think everyone's kind of on their own, at their own spot in their allyship journey. So people may be still a little bit more reserved. Some people may be more outspoken and be willing to call those things out. So it's definitely helpful because If you are someone that is underrepresented or you're part of this minority group, it may be embarrassing to advocate for yourself. It might bring some shame. You might be afraid of being reprimanded or shamed or, any of these things that, that do happen. we see it on social media, we see it on the news, we see that things do happen to people who advocate for themselves. And so if someone of privilege is calling that out as well, it creates a barrier. I don't know if, I don't remember if we talked about it, but, when I was talking to you about our meeting with Ramses Jha and Q Ward, the Civic Cipher crew, they mentioned a group called the White Paws. and they are a group of white Americans that came out to protest with, um, black and brown folks during, the 2020 protests to create that barrier between people that don't look like them, that could be in harm's way, that could be affected by police brutality and create a barrier because of what we've seen, they're not going to do that to me, um, so just creating that safe barrier for them and really like putting, putting it into action.

Jonathan: 6:55

That's super powerful. And, you know, one of the things you and I have talked about, Belen, I, I recently went to the, um, the Casp conference in Tampa, Florida in May, the keynote speakers had this wonderful term and they were talking about instead of this idea of calling out, which, you know, and we see it sometimes where people get canceled online or whatever else happens. They reframed it as a notion of calling in. That is calling people into a conversation to promote understanding as opposed to driving a wedge. And I don't know if that's something like, how do you think about that notion of calling in and how organizations and people can use that concept to. have better and more productive conversations.

Belen: 7:37

Right. I think especially in organizations, that's a, maybe a better model, especially if you're talking to your colleagues. It's not always better to call out with the mentality to offend or to, sometimes you're on the attack when you think of the words call out. But call in sets it up to be a more intimate conversation. it sounds. I think more respectful, more collaborative as well as like, let me teach you something because I'm going to assume that maybe you're not informed and not assume that maybe you're intentionally trying to hurt somebody because sometimes people don't know that what they're saying is offensive. Maybe they grew up in a different Um, so, I mean, I guess it depends when it's appropriate to do a call in and when it's appropriate to do a call out. but I think for the workplace, it would be important to do a call in and try to explain and teach. Rather than automatically jump on the defense

Jonathan: 8:46

Yeah. Explain and teach. I, that, that so resonates, with me because my strong sense is these last few years, especially since George Floyd in particular, there's been extraordinarily important dialogue that goes on. And so there's a lot of learning that's happening. And are there people out there who believe antithetical to what you and I believe when it comes to EI? Yes, sure. But my sense is also, there's a lot of people that just don't know to your point. Right. And so. Calling into dialogue. I don't know. That just feels like it's, um, it's a way to teach as you describe and help others, come along in their understanding. But let's come back around to this, the, the monthly series of sending an allyship. Like what are some of the most insightful things that you've learned from presenters over the past months?

Belen: 9:29

so much. I feel like every month is different, but the same in many ways. we all have similar values and similar goals. especially when talking to Ramses and Q and just there, they do a lot of community work, a lot of community outreach, a lot of interviews with some really important people that have important things to say. So, um, I think the most important thing would be. That these things matter all year long, not just in, it's Pride Month this month. Pride matters, the LGBTQ plus community matters the entire year, not just in June, not just when the parades and the fun stuff is going on, but they matter in the workplace, they matter in politics, they matter in general, same for every other, we highlight these months. And we choose a topic each month to highlight, but that doesn't mean after the month, you know, all right, see you next year, you know, we, we keep on doing these things every single day for everybody that we care for. And we know that, even if we don't care for them, they still deserve. They deserve the same rights, the same justice, the same everything, access.

Jonathan: 10:41

Amen to that. I don't know if you saw, Belen, was it Draymond Green back in February, was being interviewed and, or was it a press conference and was asked about Black History Month. And he said, Oh, my gosh, I I'm like, almost in tears thinking about. Like how he described, get rid of Black History Month. Why? Because when it's the shortest month, why are you giving us one short month? He said, celebrate my history and heritage from January 1st to December 31st. Exactly to your point, Belen. Celebrate it all year long. Teach it again. Then do it again, then do it again. It's just, I'll drop a link in the show notes to it. It was such a great example of exactly what you're describing, right? This is not like a, let's feel good for a month and, all changed to a rainbow flag for June, right? And then we just go back to normal. No, this is the normal, right?

Belen: 11:29

Yeah, yeah, and you do see that from, you know, these big companies and we don't know, I hope that they're doing these things year round, but obviously we see them change their logos to something rainbow or, fists in the air or something like that, but, we hope that they are really putting their money where their mouth is and... Committing to that action throughout the year

Jonathan: 11:52

You know, was it two years ago? I finally, I said for pride month, I'm, it's not going to be like, I've got a rainbow LinkedIn profile. I'm going to have that all year round because it's, it was important to me that LGBTQ community, when they saw me, they knew I was an ally

Belen: 12:08

Mm hmm,

Jonathan: 12:09

and, um, and a friend. And so I, I totally hear you on that. So one of the things that you went through at Ascend, our leadership academy, which is like super cool. And I'd love to hear some more about what you learned from that experience, how it changed your approach to your job, to your organization, Ascend, like to those around you. And yeah, did that ultimately lead you into becoming DEI co chair or yeah, tell me more about that.

Belen: 12:36

maybe I'm sure it for sure gave me some some extra confidence because I've always been someone who is Um, a little bit more reserved, kind of shy at first, not super outspoken, but I think that did help. I got to be part of the first, like the pilot class and everything, so it was awesome to just see. And, it wasn't, you just sign up for it. You had to be chosen for it. So that was an honor in and of itself. but I think one of the most impactful things I learned is clear as kind, because as someone who's more reserved, who's shy, sometimes you don't want to say what you have to say, or you kind of beat around the bush. but I've learned that sometimes you just. Sometimes you just have to say what you have to say and stop getting around the bush, stop trying to, soften things, put flowers around it and rainbows and butterflies, sometimes feedback isn't the easiest to hear, but being clear is what's most important and that's what's going to get you what you want and asking for what I want as well. I know that's not, not easy. I'm one of those. Imposter syndrome, people, as well. so sometimes it, it doesn't feel right to really ask for what I want, but I know that I have to. Because if not, you know, people can't read my mind. That's not how it works, apparently.

Jonathan: 13:52

I, I wish it did work that way. Right. No, clear is kind. I love that. I think it's originally from Brene Brown, who I'm a huge fan, fan of, and it, it is this idea, it's so important. feedback isn't good or bad Right. It just has to be delivered. Yeah. And deliver it like don't be a jerk Right. Like deliver it with empathy and

Belen: 14:10

to the facts. No, we don't need to add any opinions in there. But like, if you're giving facts, give the facts. It is what it is.

Jonathan: 14:18

totally Well, that whole idea also belen of ask for what I want, I think is. Is really important. And as leaders, maybe we don't, we don't think about this, but I, one of the things I think you did, I'd love for you to tell the story, but, um, you've spearheaded extraordinary improvements to our interview process, including getting interview questions, um, translated into Spanish for our Spanish speaking candidates. Tell me more about what, what that took and, and what would you recommend to someone at another organization who wants to do something like that, but doesn't know where to start?

Belen: 14:50

Yeah, so here at Ascend, I was, you know, lucky enough to be the brains of the operation, we'll call it, but just getting our technicians a differential pay for speaking Spanish, especially in our region, because we have, I, I don't know about, I'm assuming we have tons, my whole caseload is Spanish speaking families, so that means I have, More need for that. we live in Arizona, and we serve Arizona, Colorado, and Texas, all of which I'm sure have a huge population of Latino Spanish speaking families, um, and language can be a big barrier. So, having technicians that speak Spanish makes. a ginormous difference for families, for kiddos who can then get intervention in both, get services in both languages. and that just changes their whole outcome and the quality of their services. but it was really important for me to advocate for my techs. I was a tech once, so I know what it's like and I know that every incentive matters and I know it takes a lot of brain power to translate, even if you're just speaking, your brain sometimes says one thing and out of your mouth comes something else, or, you know, you just fumble the words. So it was really important for me to celebrate those techs that do speak two languages fluently. It's not easy to maintain or to learn whether they're native speakers or they learned growing up. so really to celebrate that and... Let them know that that's, that's an important quality. That's something we need in this field and that they're making a difference. So it was important for me to just ask. All I did was ask is, hey, can we provide differential pay for our Spanish speaking techs? And it was that easy. So sometimes the easiest thing is to just Advocate and ask.

Jonathan: 16:45

Oh, it's so true. Isn't it in life? Like just, just ask, right? The worst that happens is a no or a no and made maybe an explanation. I think that's such a powerful lesson, just like that, that power and asking, and I've, I've gotten to reflect a little, I said, it's, it's important, right? We're putting our money where our mouth is for this really hard thing that our techs that you have to do, right. And thinking in two languages and communicating the right way in both languages. But it seems like the BACB does not offer currently the RBT exam in Spanish. I don't know what thoughts and I have no idea if that there's going to be plans to change it in the future. But do you have any recommendations for Spanish speaking techs looking to become RBTs and like, I don't know, any learned secrets about being successful in the exam, taking it potentially in the second language.

Belen: 17:33

Yeah, I don't have any secrets, per se. However, I do follow a few people on Instagram that offer the RBT training in Spanish. I'll have to send those to you. Um, I don't think it helps with, like, the actual exam, because that is in English, and we have no control over that, unfortunately, which would be nice. To have it in a few languages. So this could be, you know, global access and that's always the goal is to get services globally. Um, so yeah, we'll have to keep advocating for that one, but I do know a few people on Instagram that are kind of trailblazing, at least for the RBT, prep courses and that kind of thing. And they do offer it in Spanish, although I'm not sure, if for Spanish speaking countries, the. The certifying bodies are the same, um, but yeah, definitely something to look into.

Jonathan: 18:33

Please do share those. I'm going to drop those in the show. Notes listeners, so you can have access to those resources. Um, but if we were to step back, um, and I know you've, you've only been in this co chair role for, for a number of months, but, um, you know, a lot of our listeners out there are at, ABA organizations who might not yet have a DEI committee, but. who want to advocate, who want to be allies and, but they just wouldn't know where to start when it comes to like forming a DEI committee. What advice do you have for them?

Belen: 19:04

reach out to your, your people, you know, those that you work with, you might find that you have so many values in common. And even if you don't, that's something to talk about, that gives you plenty to start with. we didn't have an official one either. It was just a group of us that came together and said, this is important to us and we want to share it with everybody else. So just. don't assume that you're the only one that's thinking this because there are probably other colleagues and professionals that are thinking the same thing. So if you don't see it started, go for it. See what other businesses are doing. See what your, partner agencies are doing. Don't be afraid to Copy them. And you know, it's a, it's a form of flattery. So yeah, don't be afraid to ask questions to people who you see doing it right.

Jonathan: 19:49

I love that answer. Like reach out to your teams and your colleagues first, ask them what's important to them. If that's something that, um, that they're interested in. I think that's, um, So well set.

Belen: 20:00

Yeah. And even if you see people on like Instagram, like Ramses and Q and their Civic Cipher crew, if you reach out to them on Instagram, they're gonna respond and, give you resources. And so if you see somebody doing it right, even on social media, that you have no idea who they are, you've never met them, send them a message. It doesn't hurt to ask questions. Yeah, yeah,

Jonathan: 20:21

know, it's Ramses and Q. I know you've mentioned them a couple of times. They were on one of the, the very first, ascending allyship events. Tell me a little bit more about them. And if I remember correctly, they actually trademarked a term. It's so awesome. But tell me, tell me that story.

Belen: 20:36

yeah. So they are originally radio hosts, I believe, or DJs. Radio hosts, Ramses, at least, is based out of Phoenix. I believe he worked in Tucson for a while, um, when the whole George Floyd thing was going on. They were like, this is our chance. We have to step up if we, don't advocate for our people who, Who is going to really, um, and so they started this podcast called Civic Cipher. They've been on it for since 2020, three years now, I think this summer, they've been doing amazing things. They trademarked the White Lives Matter, trademark because people were using it for something that it was not intended. the fact that we have to say Black Lives Matter, it's because Obviously, All Lives Matter isn't catching right now. if we have to defend Black Lives Matter, then that means that some lives aren't deemed as important as others. So, um, they trademarked that. Somebody gifted it to them, I believe. They trademarked it and said, here you go, this is yours now, um, which is a huge responsibility, huge, it's a big deal, so the fact that they have dealt with things with so much grace, they're humble learners, they're always looking to teach and advocate, just means so much, and I know it's not easy, so they're doing important work out here.

Jonathan: 22:00

That's so cool. I love the creativity and like how empowering that is to have trademarked White Lives Matter, so they would have to, they get to shut it down and or collect royalties when people use it.

Belen: 22:10

Mm hmm. For sure. Yeah, that was like the best thing that I've ever seen on social media.

Jonathan: 22:18

tell me what's one thing ABA business owners should start doing and one thing to stop doing.

Belen: 22:25

Start, if they're not already, just getting internal feedback. I think in general it's nice to get feedback from those who serve you and work for you. So if you're not doing that already, please do. It's so important to get collective feedback from From the bottom all the way up.

Jonathan: 22:44

Oh man, what should they stop doing?

Belen: 22:48

increasing workload without increasing pay. I know a lot of, especially in this business, there's so many things to do and I think it's easy to overload our employees without being like, Hey, do you think you can take this on? If not, it's cool. And if you do, there's... This incentive, you know, it's, it's not easy. Everything takes time. So, uh, paying people for their time is really, really important.

Jonathan: 23:15

For sure. Well, Belen, where can people find you online?

Belen: 23:18

Uh, my Instagram, my professional Instagram is at bilingualbcba.

Jonathan: 23:24

I love it. I will make sure that that gets in the show notes. Um, all right. Well, Belen, are you ready for the hot take rapid fire questions?

Belen: 23:34

ready. Let's do it.

Jonathan: 23:35

All right. You're on your deathbed. What's the one thing you want to be remembered for?

Belen: 23:41

Being kind, being a social justice warrior. I think I'm, the advocate, the fighter wherever I go.

Jonathan: 23:47

Social justice warrior. I love that. Oh, that gives me chills. Well, what's your most important self care practice?

Belen: 23:54

Probably the gym. That is my, my thing, my lifesaver. It's where I go. I know people go to get energy, I go to find some calm and, you know, it just really... Sets up my day.

Jonathan: 24:10

What's your favorite song and, or music genre?

Belen: 24:13

I don't think I have a favorite song, but music genre. I like a lot of music, but I'm more of an R& B or Latin music kind of girl. And even in Latin music, it's pretty diverse. you can go anywhere from like Spanish rock to Bad Bunny, and I like all of it and in between. So diverse. Mm

Jonathan: 24:32

That's awesome. Bad Bunny is a pretty extraordinary advocate in and of himself. That's a rock on. Well, what's one thing you'd tell your 18 year old self?

Belen: 24:42

Don't let imposter syndrome keep you from taking opportunities. I mean, now I think I'm good, 27 years later, but, you know, my 18 year old self would have been afraid to go on this podcast, afraid to change career paths, afraid to, you know, do a lot of things and steer away from, from whatever the path was at the time. I

Jonathan: 25:03

don't know. Thank you for conquering that fear for the benefit of our listeners and, uh, and all of your wisdom. Well, if you could only wear one style of footwear, what would it be?

Belen: 25:13

Probably some sort of sneaker, maybe, probably Nike, I like my Nike, maybe like a low top blazer, classic.

Jonathan: 25:22

Nice. Classic and comfortable, right?

Belen: 25:24

Yes. It goes with everything.

Jonathan: 25:26

Function always over fashion. Well,

Belen: 25:28

For sure.

Jonathan: 25:29

it was an absolute honor to have you on. Thank you so much for chairing our DEI committee. Thanks for all you're doing for kiddos with autism and families. I appreciate you.

Belen: 25:37

Yeah, I appreciate you as well. Thank you for having me on. Hopefully I can keep doing this for as long as, you know, life will have me do this, but yeah, I'm looking forward to all the opportunities, all the growth, all of it.