Episode 80: Polar Bear vs. Great White Shark with Matt McAlear

Building Better Businesses in ABA is edited and produced by KJ Herodirt Productions

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Transcript

Jonathan: 0:30

My guest today is Matt Maier. Matt is a c e O of First Steps for Kids and serves the executive director of the California Association for Behavior Analysis. He lives in Oakland, California with his wife and two kids. Matt, welcome to the pod dude.

Matt McAlear: 0:45

Thanks Jonathan. Thanks for having me. I'm sorry for the short bio wanting ask me to do is send you a bio and I didn't, so thanks for winging it.

Jonathan: 0:54

I gotta tell you, I appreciate the short bio. It's less pressure on me to make sure I'm not screwing it up. But here's the thing. What this short bio underlies or does not well represent is that you have done so freaking much in your career. And that's what I want to dive into. and let's start with, um, You founded Kids Overcoming or COI, and grew it over, I think six plus years. tell me what was the most rewarding and the most challenging part of that journey, man.

Matt McAlear: 1:23

Yeah, sure. might be helpful if I give you like a little bit of my ABA origin story and even how I got there. Cause I think it could of builds on itself. So, I was an indecisive undergrad in upstate New York, in, you know, the probably 93, 94 range, and decided to study social work. And my first day of my first internship, I was sent to a big state developmental hospital. You know, the old school, take these people that at that point were diagnosed with mental retardation and put'em in the hospital. They live here, they work here, they play here, and the family comes on Sundays. Um, you know, really sad state of affairs at that point. And, my first job was to go feed peanut butter and jelly to this room full of, you know, 30 to 50 year old men as snack as I thought, you know, this, I can do. So I went over with my snack and within literally eight minutes of being on the job, I still, I can show you the scar next time we see each other. Got this guy's jaw locked around my arm, and I remember going back to my dorm room, laying there saying I'm either never doing anything else again, or I'm never going back there again. I went back the next day and that kind of triggered my love for what, you know, probably was a person with autism and the science of behavior analysis. You know why in theory, when I'm giving this person what should be a reinforcer, something that, you know, he was hungry. Why he choose my arm instead? So I could have went down that path and through college worked in. Group homes and adult programs, um, you know, in, up in upstate New York, and then moved to California and became a teacher in a non-public school. So a school serving kids five to 22 years old and the bruisers who either their parents advocated for them to be out of the district or the district didn't have a placement for them. And same organization also had nine group homes, a huge adult program with, you know, folks from 22 to 75 years old. All with autism, like, you know, 500 people on this campus. so I kind of had like the birth to earth trial by fire experience. And then in 2006 or seven, I guess, I was recruited by a large national nonprofit organization to become their director of autism services. They had formed a national partnership with the Autism Society of America. Both these organizations saw each other's, scope and there was this huge need for these services. so I went there and started up our autism programming and uh, I moved up to the chief clinical officer and this was right 2007 to 11, and that is the same time that insurance was starting to heat up in California. So our mandate wasn't passed until 2012. But there was all these cases going through the Department of Managed Healthcare, which is our regulator, and then to independent medical review, which is, you know, a family being great advocates and saying, Hey, this is a medical service. We want this service. And the plans were starting to lose those on the regular. So we reached out to the largest nonprofit commercial health plan in California and said, Hey, we can solve your pain point and we can be your go-to person for these cases. So they started giving us these cases. One off this, they came, and then 2010, 11, they started seeing the writing on the wall thing. There's gonna be a mandate we're gonna have to pay for these services. Let's form a partnership here. So, myself and then my eventual business partner at Coy Ann Swinney, she was the chief, uh, financial officer. I was the chief clinical officer. We signed a statewide contract for services with this large, you can figure out who it is, provider of services in California. And then about six months into that, we said, hold on. Why don't we do this for ourselves? So we called the Chief Medical Officer and said, Hey, if we were gonna open a shop, would you send us kids? They said, well, we just signed. This pretty significant contract with you. You know, we trust you. So yes, that was kind of the birth of coy, uh, kids overcoming. So we started literally in Anne's basement, full entrepreneur style. our staff meetings were people sitting on her kids' bunk beds to start. super startupy, which was so much fun. And we took some of our people that had worked for me at the school and then followed us to the nonprofit, they came over. So it was really like, as an entrepreneur, a pretty easy startup. We had a contract, we had kids right away. We had a staff right away. So that's kinda how we got started. And then for your initial question, we built, our organization over six-ish years until we, transacted and we built it across four states. We had, you know, 400 ish staff. And I think the most exciting thing for me was just surrounding, and what I still love to do today is just surrounding myself as good people. I like to do that in my personal life. I like to do that in my business life. Just kind smart people who are all kind of looking in the same direction. Does that help, that help kinda set the stage for things a little bit?

Jonathan: 6:11

I mean, I've got 1,000,001 questions about this original peanut butter and jelly and the bite, and I'm so good. Gosh, our field is so lucky that you chose to go down the blue pill and, and you went back the next day. But it's one of the things I think people don't fully appreciate about. Um, Entrepreneurship is the true power of having a partner, right? Because this is a lonely freaking journey, and I didn't appreciate that you and Anne met that far back at a prior organization before in

Matt McAlear: 6:37

2007. We've been working side by seven, so,

Jonathan: 6:40

and you're still working together today, we're gonna talk about that

Matt McAlear: 6:42

correct.

Jonathan: 6:42

Uh, in a moment, the first step. But, tell me what was it in Anne, or what did you all see in each other that just made it so natural to work together? how do you pinpoint evaluating the right partner?

Matt McAlear: 6:54

Yeah. So I think, there's gotta be interpersonal connection. You know, we, we get along well, we work well together. We respect each other's space. You know, I think what is interesting with our relationship is, I guess like our families don't go on vacation together. You know, like we see each other socially. We both live in the same town, but, we have separate lives and I think that's helpful as well. Uh, and I think the most important thing other than the interpersonal connection is that we have. Really well developed non-competing skillsets. So I'm A B, C, B A. I look at things from the clinical side, the operational side, and as a cpa. So she is a certified public accountant who looks at things from also a very operational side. But then all the financial pieces that are not my preferred skills or tasks to deal with are right in her wheelhouse. And I think, both of those things combined have really served us well. Over the years. So we worked, you know, at that nonprofit together, we started coy together. We were at our next journey after COI that we, I'm sure we'll talk about. And now in our current, roles, we're able to work together as well. So it's been a really great long-term relationship.

Jonathan: 8:00

I, I love that notion of a non-competing skillset, a complimentary set that allows Correct. You all both focus on the things you enjoy doing and the things that are in your wheelhouse. So you and Anne made a decision to sell Coy Kadiant. and one thing we share in common, uh, you know, I would not be in the autism services field if not for Lanny Fritz, who started trumpet behavioral health many, many years ago. And, which I joined in in 2012. And then he subsequently went on to start Kadiant. And I mean, just, you talk about salt of the earth, human beings. And leaders, I'll follow him to the ends of the earth. And so clearly I get he wanted to be a part of, Kadiant. but tell me more about what prompted you to sell, and then what, what do you know now that you wish you knew when you started that process?

Matt McAlear: 8:48

Hmm. Good questions. Um, so, you know, around, so we started a late 2011, early 2012. Our transaction was finalized in April, 2019. So from like 16 to 19, you know, just kind of looking at the fields, how things are moving, getting as every entrepreneur and business owner has for the last five or seven years, calls from every investment group around who are you know, smelling the blood in the water of, money from the commercial plans coming in, looking to get into the game. we knew that a transaction was probably inevitable, so let's plan for it. And I think we did a really good job, a thoughtful job of, you know, building the scope of our company. So it created value. We went across state lines, which also creates value. Just showing that, you can run a company in your hometown, sure, but can you deal with another state's regulations? Can you deal with another state's licensure? Can you deal with another state's payers and still keep the margin that the eventual uh, buyer is looking for? So I think that we did that really well. I think another thing that, was helpful to set us up for success is we always worked on a strategic plan. So we brought in a third party, guy named Peter Doms. I'll give him a plug. Peter is awesome. He's from Western Michigan. He's done plans for, you know, a lot of our large organizations in our fields. And, I've him at CalABA. And so I, we brought in Peter and we said, Hey Peter, here's what our eventual goal is in three years. We had two 18 month plans with Peter and our leadership team. So, we all worked the plan, like every one of our meetings was like, what's your goal? If we're not, if it's not on the plan, let's not work towards it. so that was really helpful to set us up for success. And then when we went down the road with. a buyer that didn't work out and I think that's a good thing. And right around that same time, Lanny had moved his family after his trumpet uh, sale, he moved his family, as you know, to Spain and they spent a year just having the most unbelievable experience it sounds like, homeschooling their kids and traveling all over Europe for a year. Uh, and then he came back and he's got a big brain and a big heart and he had lots of folks saying, Hey, we want to back you to open the next. Uh, you know, kind of multi-company company. So he had TPG approach him and then Lanny approached us. And Lanny is also, you know, a personal friend. We've been on boards together and just kinda the conference social scene. so having Loni involved was a big differentiator for us. our vision and our values aligned. the vision that he had for Kadiant was one that I was, you know, like when you sell your business, It's your baby. You know, we spent a lot of time working on this thing. You don't wanna just hand it off. I didn't wanna hand it off to someone that I couldn't trust. So, having Lanni involved was a big decision for us, and we went down the road and got it done.

Jonathan: 11:40

what do you wish you knew at the time as you went through that process,

Matt McAlear: 11:45

I wish I knew how intense the due diligence. Was gonna be, uh, it was intense. So TPG is a, you know, large, and this was their their first take on purchasing a behavioral health company first look at aba. So they put us through the grinder and it was, you know, six months of pretty much a full-time job for Anne and I while trying to run a company. So, it was quite intense, just, you know, pouring over. Every part of your business. And it was really helpful for us, I think, to know, in advance, we knew that there was gonna be some diligence. We had our books in order, we had, you know, things accessible. Uh, hiring a great attorney I think is another, like you must have a great attorney and you must have someone with m and a mergers and acquisition experience just to help with the diligence efforts. Talk to the other attorney, negotiate your deal. So we did have that, on our side. But I think if I knew how intense the diligence would've been, I would've stacked our team with a few more folks. There was, 18 hour days for, Ann and I trying to come up with all that stuff going against, you know, TPG and PWCs team of, you know, 75 associates. So it was a, it was a lot, but we got it done.

Jonathan: 13:01

I, I empathize. You know, I was with a large national provider and we did several rounds of fundraising and it, I, well, I'll never forget, Matt, it was like I had an 8:30 AM to 5:30 PM job, and then like you put the kids to bed and then I felt like I had my like 9:00 PM to 2:00 AM job and that can be super distracting, right? Because you got kiddos to serve, you got team members to support, you got payer relationships and other referral source relationships to keep up. I mean, the list goes on and on. So what recommendations do you have for an ABA owner who's considering joining a larger practice.

Matt McAlear: 13:33

So I think, you know, doing your own due diligence on the buyer, you know, is this a good fit? What's their turn? You know, are they gonna hold onto the company for two years, three years, five years? I think the biggest, piece for me personally was like, what's my role? Is there a role for me? I wasn't ready to go off into the sunset. and thankfully Lani's Vision was to have, both Anne and I and some of the other brilliant folks that we ended up working with Kadiant and have roles there. But that's not the case for everybody and some people are ready to go retire. Um, so I think understanding what role, if any, would be there for you. Definitely making sure that your values and vision are aligned. Um, that's a really important piece. You know, just making sure that this is a company that you can buy in, that when you have that transaction, you're letting go of everything. Is this the place you wanna send your, company to? So those would be two things that I would definitely look out for

Jonathan: 14:32

Sage advice. And, um, gosh, just to emphasize overindex in my mind, it's so important to Overindex and spend way more time than you'd ever think. Ensuring that last point is there vision and values alignment with this organization? I'm gonna be part of, if you want to keep in your case, being part of that organization.

Matt McAlear: 14:48

another important piece too. You know? Is there a role for your team on the new team? You know, some folks will make an acquisition, just let that company run as it is. In theory, if they're purchasing it, probably making a little bit of, uh, profit, will they let them run or is it that all of the back office team are gonna be consolidated? And then you have your hr, your payroll, your billing people out of work. And if so, you know, as a business owner, I think anybody that goes through your transaction, make sure you take care of your team as well. You know, you might be the owner of the company, but there are people that worked really hard to get you to that point of success. And I think either making sure that you take care of them or it's negotiated in your deal that you know they're taken care of and they have a soft landing spot and some kind of runway or, uh, financial runway or career transition services, et cetera, is a really important piece.

Jonathan: 15:42

So well said. I mean, you've all been part of that journey right up to that point and honoring them, and that is critical. Well, here's what's so interesting because about your story is you had this unbelievable opportunity. So now subsequent to selling, COI to Kadiant, You had an opportunity to become CEO of another ABA services organization, first Step, uh, and for whom you've been CEO for I think almost a year now. Um, yep. And so this is really powerful. The

Matt McAlear: 16:11

job I told myself I would never have again. It's amazing

Jonathan: 16:16

what amnesia entrepreneurs have, right? Yeah. It's like a survival instinct. What is it? What did you do differently in your first year as ceo? At First step based on what you learned from COI and your time at Kadiant? Sure.

Matt McAlear: 16:31

So, uh, you know, after I left Kadian, we did three years post-acquisition left. And I said, you know, as I just said, I'm never again gonna be a ceo, E o I'm never again gonna do day-to-day operations. And I was, you know, hell bent on that. And then I think it was at the CASP conference, I ran into Jen Harris, who is the owner. Dr. Jen Harris is the owner of First Steps. And she had also been on the board with me at Calva for I think nine years, close to a decade. So we have a good personal relationship, good working relationship, and she's like, oh my God, you're not there anymore. Come work with me. Oh, definitely not. No possible way am I gonna do that. And you know, we had subsequent conversation. She came up, we went out to dinner, you know, talked it over. And uh, the thing that really drew me to First Steps is number one, it's a company that's been around 18 years. So Jen was a UCLA study with Lova, was number six or eight or nine employee at card, you know, been in the field forever and just does it right. The reputation precedes them. they have an amazing team. We have, you know, Courtney Tarbox is our Chief Clinical Officer. Jonathan Tarbox is the director of research. So working with a team like that piqued my interest a little bit and then looking at, They're, um, BCBAs and region directors, et cetera. The tenure of those folks in, there's five clinics and at each of the clinics, there's probably at least five, probably closer to 10 BCBAs that have been with the organization for 8, 10, 12, 15 years, which is just unheard of. So between the, you know, tenure of the team, the culture of the organization, so I decided, yep, I'm gonna do this. And I had, one other caveat for Jen was I get to bring Ann along. Guys, you know, good non-competing skillsets. So Anne come along as the COO.. So I think, coming into a well-established, great reputation company versus kind of coy, the startup, put me in a different mode as the ceo. And I think my first, nine months-ish here at first Apps, there's been a lot of listening. A lot of just getting to learn who people are, how they do things, why they do things, learn about the clinical programs, kind of dig into the operations side. So really trying to do no harm first has been my mantra. come in, try to make some quick high value changes for the team so they can feel the difference. like a good behavior analyst trying to pair myself. Was something that's reinforcing to their team. Uh, and I think we've done a pretty good job of that. And, you know, the next step is now like, okay, what systems can we change? What processes can we change to gain some efficiency? another big difference between my previous life at Kadiant and First Steps is it First Steps is entirely privately held by Jen and her husband, Greg Harris, versus having a board to report to. it's Jen, Ann, and I on the phone. Like, okay, can we do this? Yep, we can do this. So it's the being a little more agile, uh, than working in a, a large organization has been, uh, it's been nice, a little esque, uh, I should say. So, you know, a lot of listening, a lot of scanning of the environment. And then, we'll make some change along the way. but, getting people on board and building those relationships, I think, uh, you know, as a. Teacher and a behavior analyst. You have to build that relationship before you try to teach, before you try to make any change. If not, you're just coming in as the heavy hands and you know that serves no one Well.

Jonathan: 20:00

So well said. This is Sage advice and, and one of my favorite books, I put it in my top five favorite books of all time is a book called The First 90 Days. I've read it several times over the course of the last couple decades of my career. And, it talks about whether you are moving into a different position at the same organization or moving to an entirely new organization. Um, do. Exactly as you said, survey the environment. Know. Are you going into a turnaround situation versus a a startup environment versus a realignment versus sustaining success, which it sounds like first steps, that's exactly what it was. And then spend those first 90 days listening. Right, and that's hard, especially for a leader, right? Cuz you're coming in with all kinds of energy and ideas and you've got this whole experience and skill set to draw on. But it's so important before, like you, that that quote you had build a relationship before you try to teach so you can set your team up for what they'll need. I think that's really powerful,

Matt McAlear: 20:58

Matt. Yeah, exactly. And then, you know, our experience with Kadiant and I think really helped me learn how to do that because we had six months of nine acquisitions, like rapid fire, like okay, we were, the CO was the first, and I know you're good buddies with the Lunds, you know, Coby and Janet and such an amazing experience working with them as well. And then, you know, a number of companies after that, Some of the companies, their leaders stuck around, and others exited and it was so much relationship building and everything was new and people were scared and what's gonna happen, we just got purchased. it was a lot of integration, relationship building. I think I've always believed in building relationships before teaching and making change, but that really solidified it for me. Because there was a lot of really scared, freaked out people that, our leadership team had to win and make sure they knew things were gonna be okay. Make sure they knew that they had empathetic, smart people on the other side of this for them. You know, the person they had worked for for 15 years on Thursday was there and on Friday wasn't. just the nature of an acquisition, you can't tell your staff sometimes. So there was some dramatic, not dramatic, but, quick turns, in leadership. So, uh, you know, again, just building relationships, not making dramatic change right away I think

Jonathan: 22:21

is key. Let me ask, what keeps you up as a c e o of an ABA services organization? What keeps you up at night these days?

Matt McAlear: 22:29

Well, you know, especially as the owner of an organization, as we grew knowing that, there's 400, 500, however many people that their rent, their mortgages, Their family's dinner counts on me, counts on me making payroll counts on our organization, making money. That weighed on me pretty heavily and still does. it's just, you know, there's human lives at stake and this isn't, a game of monopoly. there's people that have rent to pay. There's, people that have tuition to pay for their kids. And it's up to me to make sure that this organization is running smoothly and meeting all of our goals so we can all meet our personal goals. I think that was one of the big things. It definitely weighed heavy on the head sometimes,

Jonathan: 23:15

right? It's not monopoly money. This is not just an Excel spreadsheet of like numbers. You're moving around these other people's lives that we as leaders and CEOs are entrusted with. And that is a sacred trust. That's, that's super well said dude. But here's the thing. You, you must be a masochist or a glutton for punishment or, I don't, I don't know even know how to put it. Cuz like, not only are you the CEO first, you're also the executive director of Calaba, which I think is the biggest, uh, like state ABA organization in the country. So, okay, here's my que my questions are twofold, Matt. Number one, how do you freaking find the time? Okay. And number two, what will behavior analysis look like in California if Calaba is successful beyond your wildest dreams?

Matt McAlear: 23:57

Good questions. Uh, I think like the Calaba probably deserves another origin story, like how I, landed there. So around the same time we were starting coy 2012. California as most states with their mandate, ABA starts to boom. The organizations start to grow. So Jane Howard, you know, one of the all-time biggest brain leaders in our field was the Calaba president at the time, and gave me a call, said, Hey, you know, we're growing, the organization's growing. It's changing from. A historical kind of research and practice conference based organization to helping our membership manage health plans coming on. How do I bill, what do I do? So she said we could just use you for a couple hours a week. Just an easy consult. Yeah, no problem. We can do a couple hours a week and you know, that was in 2012. Here we are 11 years later and we just had our annual conference with 3000 people for four days. Uh, typically more than a couple hours a week now. So it was another kind of by default, right time, right place, building relationships. Again, you know, I had been in Sacramento a lot working on issues with Jane and built a relationship and built a trusting relationship. So she asked me to come on. And over time it just increased in size and scope to the point where the board, I think it was in 2015, decided that, my 1099 life was done and it was time to take on an executive director role just with the roles and responsibilities that were, uh, coming to me. we have an amazing board of directors. We got a hardworking board that do, you know, there's a lot of nonprofit boards that people are on there to get it on their CV. Or, just say they're on the board but don't like to do actual work. But we have a board that does actual work, which is helpful. and then we have an amazing staff of one Emily for us, who takes a big load off my plate. So it's a challenge at times, especially, you know, our conference, like I said, just happened we're, you know, in the end of March right now, as you and I are talking, So from, November or probably November, December through March, my CalABA have a life intensifies. Um, but we have a good support staff in there. So it's, you know, just time management is the key

Jonathan: 26:11

priority management.

Matt McAlear: 26:13

Priority management for sure. You know, there's fires everywhere and it's just a matter of making sure that, I think I do a pretty good job of calmly addressing fires and I pride myself on never getting too high or too low, uh, professionally and personally. I think it's just a good way to roll through life. Um, what, what was your second question? Something, uh, a success.

Jonathan: 26:36

What, yeah. What would behavior analysis look like in California? If kLab is successful beyond your wildest dreams?

Matt McAlear: 26:43

Well, um, you know, I think what we're seeing is a new generation of behavioral analysts for sure. You know, the BACB data is something like 60% have been certified in the last three or five years, which is just unreal. Um, and I think what I would like to do, and I'm sure most state and professional associations would like to do, is show value to those folks. We have 8,000 plus BCBAs in California and a membership of probably 45% of them, 40% of them, which I think is pretty typical, uh, according to conversations with some of our national organizations that see more states than me seeing just one. But I would love to show that CalABA has membership value to folks other than just a discount at the conference for signing up for your membership. Which, you know, sometimes it does. So whether that's, you know, we do a lot of public policy work. We do a lot of work on protecting our practice here in California. we do not have licensure in California yet, so that is a big priority, uh, for our board as well. And I think if we could get California licensed this behavior analyst and continue to show value to our, next generation behavior analyst, why join a trade association? I think that would be a big success for me.

Jonathan: 28:04

I wanna double click on this, Matt. Um, yeah. Uh, this, this point of licensure and help our, the audience understand like is, I think it's a little over half of us states now.

Matt McAlear: 28:15

It's 34 maybe. See they're 33, 34. Yeah. Right now.

Jonathan: 28:19

Yeah. Well, so well over half And licensure can be so important as a consumer protection mechanism. Yeah. As a validation of the discipline, um, and the profession. And, and for lots of other reasons. Why doesn't California have licensure yet?

Matt McAlear: 28:36

Um, you know, a few different reasons. So we've launched in the past five years, I guess two efforts. And one, uh, there was concerns from within the field just about, uh, cost. There is an additional cost to license, the field. You'd have to pay for licensure fees. the state of California wanted to register all the paraprofessionals in the field and, you know, there's 50,000, 60,000, whatever it is. So number one, there would be a cost and a lot of concern just about the turnover there. You know, do you wanna pay the state of California, whatever their fee would be for someone who's gonna quit in 10 days. Or, not make it to the year. So we just, had to take a step back and try to figure out the fiscal, issues involved there. And the second piece is we have some of the allied fields in state, not just our state, but other states, psychologists, MFTs, lcs, ws, PCCs we have here that, there's a little bit of a turf war going on. You know, they're in our state licensed to do behavior analysis if they state that they personally have it in their scope of competence. So I think there's a little hesitation from those, professions to license Californians as behavioral analysts. So we're working through that. And again, back to the core theme of what I've been talking about is relationships. What we're doing is reaching out and trying to build those relationships with the psych association, the MFTs. We started a stakeholder association or stakeholder committee on our board. So we have a board chair and uh, that committee and that person's job is to develop a committee of non behavior analysts that have some stake or perspective on behavior analysis in California and report back, give us feedback. What can we be doing differently? How can we work better with you as parents or you as psychologists, or you as commercial health plans? And we've gotten some really great feedback, uh, from that group so far. So, I think it's building relationships, right? Timing. We'll see, you know, our next two year legislative cycle, is in 2025. So that would likely, if we're gonna, uh, have another licensure bill, it would be then, uh,

Jonathan: 30:43

Wow. Little bit of art. It sounds like little science, little reading teams. Correct. And a ton of relationship building. It all comes back to relationship building,

Matt McAlear: 30:51

right? It does. It does. And some political contributions as well. That helps, right.

Jonathan: 30:58

Matt? What's one thing ABA business owners should start doing and one thing they should stop doing?

Matt McAlear: 31:05

Um, start using data to run your business, I think is probably a good thing to do. I think a lot of clinicians who are great clinicians and use data every day in their clinical practice are just, you know, improvising under running a business. and making it kind of cascading down through the organization, not making data, not making your financial performance kind of this thing we don't talk about, you know, we don't talk about numbers in our organization. It's gonna turn people off. It feels icky and yucky. Uh, It's what runs your business. So I think having KPIs, key performance indicators that the whole team is looking at on a regular basis. You know, one of the changes that we implemented at First Steps is we just started two months ago, so we kind of wait a little while. We do monthly operating reviews for each of our regions. So it's getting the whole team together, the leader, all of our leadership team, and everybody's looking at the data. How do we perform last month? What can we do different next month? And I hope it's not a punitive process, but it's just, you know, using the data to show us whether we're doing well or we're not doing well. So I think, using data, being a good behavior analyst, using data to run your business is what you should do. I think another really big should do and has worked really well for me in my professional life. It's having a plan, having a strategic plan. You know, many years ago it was, you did a five year plan, it's just too long now, you know, things. Change the environment, change funding changes. have an 18 month plan, have a 12 month plan, and just work the plan. at Cal ABA we use a plan as well, and every report that all the board members submit for all of our meetings reports on their goals for the plan for the next 18 months. What activities did we do at First Steps? We have a plan. At Coy, we had a plan, so everybody is working the plan. The plan should be running side by side with a budget. So we all know, are we in line? Are we overspending? Are we underspending? And again, it's a change. And you know, not as fun as being on the ground, playing with a two year old, teaching'em how to say mom or dad for the first time, but your clinic doors won't be opened if you're not meeting your financial, in performance goals. So I think those are two things that I would definitely recommend Stop doing, I think. I think there's a lot of young, not young, but you know, new to the field. Really excited folks that want to just go right into leadership roles. And I think stop not paying your dues. do some time in an organization, learn what it is to be, uh, program director, then a region director, then, you know, whatever the next title is. Then go open your own shop. So, you know, that's why I kind of wanted to show my origin story. You know, I didn't open coy straight out the gates. That was, you know, 15 years into my career. I did. And it served me really well to, you know, pay my dues clinically, pay my dues administratively. Um, so I think, you know, pay your dues. It's just part of life, you know, it's much easier to open it up, but I think there's a lot of mistakes to be made. And if you do, open up a shop right away, find a mentor, find a business mentor. Go for leadership training, go for business training. I think our field could use some additional leadership and business training infused into some of our programs. it's not gonna be in the university, B C B A program, it's just not built into their curriculum. but I think organizations who are, growing, having your own internal mentorship and leadership academies or whatever you want to call it, Providing some of those soft skills, uh, really helpful. And again, usually not the preferred skills that A B C B A wants to know or learn, but you know, really important for success.

Jonathan: 34:50

So I wanna, I, this is so admirable this idea of having a monthly operating review and just giving your teams. Transparency around the financial performance and just generally the performance of the business. You know what I like to say if we're entrusting our teams with kiddos lives, right? Totally. so if we are entrusting with them with that, we can darn well entrust them with how our business is doing and engage them as partners in the next phase of success in the business. So I love how you, how you describe that. Matt, tell me, where can people find

Matt McAlear: 35:25

you online? Not many places they can find me on LinkedIn. Uh, and first steps for kids.com, calaba.org. Those are the two organizational places, but, uh, my online presence is, uh, a little limited by design. Fair

Jonathan: 35:43

enough, dude. All right, well, you ready for our

Matt McAlear: 35:44

hot take questions, sir? Yeah, I got one for you at the end too. True. Nevada is fair play done. Fair

Jonathan: 35:52

is fair. All right, well, you're on your deathbed. What's the one thing you wanna be remembered?

Matt McAlear: 35:56

Um, you know, I think being kind, just being a, good person, having good relationships and nurturing those over time, being humble I think is another one. I think I'm a pretty humble dude and I'm okay with that. so I think being, being kind and humble, being a good father, being a good husband, I'd be happy with all those. What's your

Jonathan: 36:22

most important self-care practice?

Matt McAlear: 36:25

Uh, getting outside, you know, I like to get outside. I play golf miserably, but I really enjoy it. I like to be on the water paddleboard. Um, like to go to the mountains hike. Just, just getting outside is key for me. Take a breath every day.

Jonathan: 36:43

Right on. What's your favorite song and or music

Matt McAlear: 36:48

genre? So I'm definitely in the genre camp, so I'm a lifelong deadhead. So Grateful Dead and related. I found lots of different strains and genres of music through the Grateful Dead, but I did, uh, um, many, many Grateful Dead shows in my day. And, uh, that's my go-to for sure.

Jonathan: 37:11

No way. Alright, well, like this is a whole nother podcast episode. I also fancy myself. As a dead head. No, I never got to them in concert. I've seen all their permutations since. Um, but Cassidy, uh, my wife and I had many long, hard conversations, and I want to name my daughter's Cassidy after my favorite Grateful Dead song. Needless to say, she won as she should have. We did not, but oh my gosh, I, it's still, it's just, I, I'm a sucker for any Bobby Weir song Give

Matt McAlear: 37:43

Pocket. So his first show, 1988. Alright, well then we've got,

Jonathan: 37:50

we've got plenty of conversation to be.

Matt McAlear: 37:53

I got the old pictures. Oh, I can't

Jonathan: 37:56

wait. Long hair and everything, I'm sure, right? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. What's one thing

Matt McAlear: 38:01

you tell your 18 year old self? Um, probably a few things. Listen, you know, be a good listener. Make sure you hear people's. Opinions, hear their thoughts. It's a great way to learn, great way to build relationships. Um, trust your gut for sure. I think I've rarely gone wrong when trust your gut or the vibes you get from a situation or a person. Um, and as a 18 year old growing up in New Jersey, California really is all obstruct up to be. I had an aunt and uncle who lived in Tiburon, which is in Marin County, like super wealthy community. They used to bring my brother and I out for, you know, a month every summer. And that's how I envisioned everyone lived here in California. So when I moved here in 97, and there's like six of us, two dogs in a studio apartment for the first couple years. Uh, but you know, I live in the Bay Area in an hour or two in any direction. I'm in the desert, I'm in the ocean, um, in the mountains and. People, the culture, uh, it's a great place to live and raise my family. Love it.

Jonathan: 39:15

Well, you can only wear one style of footwear. What would

Matt McAlear: 39:17

it be? Oh, my rainbows for sure. My flips totally year round. I walk out to school cold. We got a atmospheric river today. Got my flips on. Spoken like a true deadhead dude. Oh my gosh. Matt, thank you. Thank you so much for being being on the path. Got it. It's great cast. I got one for you. Okay, here's scenario. Olympic sized swimming pool. Mm-hmm. Six feet of water. Mm-hmm. Nine foot polar bear, 12 foot. Great white shark who comes out on top. Hmm.

Jonathan: 40:00

So I, I, I'm gonna cheat a little and say, I think the great white shark isn't gonna survive in chlorinated water. Saltwater saltwater's in the pool. Okay. Saltwater in the pool either way. I, I, I have a horrible fear of drowning and so I'm getting away from that shark as quick as I can. I'm gonna fight the polar bear. Um, the polar bear is,

Matt McAlear: 40:23

no, it's the polar bear versus the shark. Oh, I don't have to fight either of them. No, you're just a total observer. Uh,

Jonathan: 40:31

my, i, my armpits are sweating. They were like, my heart rate is up. I thought I was in the pool. Thank you for,

Matt McAlear: 40:37

thank you for clarifying that. No, no. I think we'd lose that one every time.

Jonathan: 40:42

I, um, I think the shark wins

Matt McAlear: 40:46

who I'm, I'm on team Polar bear flaws and Jaws.

Jonathan: 40:53

Claws and jaws. I, I like that. But you know, I mean, I, I, a shark has that shark skin, right? And the layers of like cartilage and thing, what do they say? Layers or players

Matt McAlear: 41:02

attack from below. I think that's the key for me. Six feet of water. They might not have enough room to attack. They could do some damage for sure. But anyway. Interesting. I'm open

Jonathan: 41:13

to persuasion. Okay. You're team Polar. Bear. I'm team. Great. White shark. Um, we'll, we'll continue that conversation with some dead in the background. That sounds good. And Matt, this was

Matt McAlear: 41:23

awesome. Thanks Paul. Yeah, super fun. Thanks for having me.