Episode 74: Teaching the Autism Community Trades with Danny Combs

Build with TACT:  https://www.buildwithtact.org/

Building Better Businesses in ABA is edited and produced by KJ Herodirt Productions

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Transcript

Jonathan: 0:29

My guest today is Danny Combs. Danny's a fourth generation woodworker and mechanical tinkerer who grew up making stuff with his family. Eventually, he decided to follow his own path and went to Nashville to play music. His vibrant career included various platinum albums with Grammy and Oscar winning recording artists. Danny has two incredible children, Dylan and Ellie. When his son Dylan was diagnosed with autism, Danny formed tact. Teaching the autism community trades to help other kids like his own and their families. He's past board chair, president of the Autism Society of Colorado. He's in the Air Force Reserve, working in space system operations and most recently, he co-founded the Colorado Neurodiversity Chamber of Commerce, Danny has a Master's degree in education as a board certified cognitive specialist, a certified autism specialist, and a classic car junkie. Danny, welcome to the pod dude.

Danny Combs: 1:22

Welcome. Thank you. I appreciate it so much.

Jonathan: 1:27

So Danny, you are literally like a Renaissance man. Um, and uh, there's so much that you do that I wanna dig into, but, but you're, you know, you're also a consummate entrepreneur. And tell me, when did you realize that you were a visionary builder, entrepreneur?

Danny Combs: 1:43

Oh, it's very flattering. I dunno if I would necessarily think of myself in all those things. I just, I like learning. I love learning new things. I love to read. I like new experiences. I find that best I can tell we get one shot at this and there's so much to do. So, I find that I'm always looking and enjoying and trying to really take it in. I mean, my life was changed with, with my son and I mean, I would say for the better. I feel like I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be, but it certainly was in a different direction for sure. But, I just find that I have a unique background. My parents were amazing. My family, uh, lineage like. I feel like I come from good individuals that raised me in a nice way that gives me the tools I need to be the person I need to be for my son. So it's, it's kind of neat how it feels like it all comes full circle. So, I'm just trying to do the best I can with it. So, yeah. Appreciate it.

Jonathan: 2:31

tell me some more about Dylan, about your son and the, the autism diagnosis and how did that change your perspective on the community and, and on your world?

Danny Combs: 2:40

that's a great question. It, it changed so much. I mean, I, I feel like when I first heard those words, I didn't know nearly as much as I know now. So, I mean, I definitely had a different perception too. But I mean, it also, I. Explained a lot and also brought a lot of like, oh, that makes so much more sense now. at the same time, but at the same token too, I mean, the world's changed so much since he was diagnosed. He's 14 now and he was younger when, you know, we first got those words have been in Denver now for a decade. So this was all the way back in Nashville. And, it was, Hard to hear, honestly. Like I would love to tell you that I had this great response. Where was this? Like, yay and let's go and all that. But I was. I took it hard at first, honestly, selfishly I had all these thoughts of like, you know, does this change who I am as a man, as a father, as like, will I ever be a grandfather? Is my family name going to carry on? I mean, all these selfish thoughts, but I'm just being real and honest. Kind of, kind of thoughts. And then, um, You know, I feel like diving in and seeing how amazing he was and all the love and joy that he brought, that really felt like something to get behind. And, trying to support his strengths too, because I mean, he was six, six and a half before he could say like, I love you dad, or really express in a way that I really received. It felt like, his affection. And my daughter at that point was three and I was having more conversations with her. And, um, it was seeing his strengths in the way that he could do things. That was really the inspiration for tact and the launching pad that, you know, brought us here to get to meet each other today. So I always credit Dylan with changing my life for the better. I think he's taught me so much and I've learned so much more from him than I think I could ever teach him. And, um, I'm really grateful for all of it. So, yeah.

Jonathan: 4:32

Wow. That idea of like, you've learned so much more from him than you could ever teach him that's such a humbling, and you have just this powerful perspective, Danny. Um, and I, I honor your journey and I'm curious, was there a very direct line from, His autism diagnosis to then your sense that, huh? our community needs something, um, you know, and, and, and then forming tact or, you know, what was the need you saw in the community that prompted you to start tact?

Danny Combs: 4:58

That's a great question. So, um, yes. there was a, a great group, um, down in Nashville, just outside of Nashville. I lived on the old Hickory Lake there and there was a group called Little Fox Therapy. so if they watched this, they were great if out in Mountain Juliet, just, to the east of Nashville there. And, um, they were doing great things and it was a great team. And, I gave them a whole bunch of money cuz I was paying for everything out of pocket. because nothing is covered in Tennessee under any kind of insurance, it's at all, which is part of the catalyst of bringing me to Colorado. And, um, during that process, it was just so he needs to do this, he needs to change, that, he needs to do X, Y, and Z. And while yes, they identified, you know, areas of growth in him and helped me discover some success enablers that he needed. I never once heard, and I'm not putting them down at all. So I hope it doesn't come across like that, but I never heard what he was good at and like what he could do, or the things that, you know, the potential that he did have. And so seeing him able to make things, fix things, visualize things, conceptualize things, it started as simple as that of just like, okay, these are things that I can identify that he's really good at. And how do I find a way to build that up and help him see that in himself? You know, I've never wanted him to ever feel like this world he needs to change for. I've always wanted it to be, and I hope it, you know, the end of my days, wherever Dylan ends up, that he looks at the world and never realizes the struggle that we went through to get that world in place. I want him to just be like, this is who I am. They see me for who I am, and they embrace it. I think we had a long way to go for that. But, seeing those strengths in him, started putting together the idea of tact and seeing that there was no one else doing anything like it. And I actually had the chance to meet Dr. Temple Grandon and um, said, Hey, I've got this idea. What do you think? And she was a hundred percent in the Catalyst where she was like, you need to put down your guitar. Stop doing this. Stop what you're doing and go do this right now. And for whatever reason, um, I don't know if I just had too much coffee that day, or just my heart or mind, whatever in that place. It was just like, okay. And did. And, it's been the best vice. She's since become just a dear friend and, she'll call me sometimes outta the blue. I was just on Colorado Public Radio and, um, All of a sudden she heard that apparently as she was leaving a factory and somewhere that she was consulting on, and I don't even know where Colorado. And she called me from the parking garage and is like, I just heard you. Thank you. You did it right. And she's just so sweet, and encouraging and just we're in alignment in so many things and it just makes me happy that she still takes the time to, to call and say that she's keeping up with everything. So, um, Yeah, that was a game changer. And um, you know, it's grown a lot since then and the world's grown a lot since then, so it's kind of exciting to see, you know, we're seven years in as of next month. And it's wild to think that you know where we are, seven years in, it seems like others are starting to get to a similar place, and where we're gonna be in another seven, another decade, another 20 years. I don't know. But I have a feeling it's heading in a direction that it's just finally start heading in. So it feels like,

Jonathan: 8:18

Wow. Okay, there's so much, Danny. Now I need to unpack here. First, just to be clear, this is the Dr. Temple Grandon from Colorado State University, uh, ag Professor ais, she's autistic herself, and she told you directly, you've gotta put down your guitar. Go start this.

Danny Combs: 8:35

And when Temple tells you to do something, you do it cuz she's usually right. So, um, yeah, she's an amazing individual. She's like, um, you know, women's Hall of Fame, time Magazine. Hundred one most Influential people. She says a new book, that she wrote. she's an extraordinary person. She really is.

Jonathan: 8:51

Wow. Well, so then, and I heard you describe Dylan A. Little bit there. Ha. Did Dylan get the tinkerer, um, sort of woodworker jeans, or is that Ellie,

Danny Combs: 9:02

I was so, hope so my friend. No, definitely the tinkerer, but it seems like, you know, this entire. And I hate to stereotype, and I'm not trying to, but it seems like the Gen Zers are definitely more technology based and Dylan definitely falls in line with that. But if I can definitely get him thinking outside the box in regards to even what that looks like technologically. And you know, the new things we do at TACT is we look at it from a holistic approach of not just using but diagnosing, fixing, and assembling because there's so much more to it than just using these technologies, but genuinely understanding them and able to. Fix them and maintain them and create the infrastructure to sustain them. I think is gonna be important. So I'm hoping that taking that, you know, the tech stuff that we're doing now at, at Tact, where we work with Microsoft now with their, um, hollowlens doing mixed reality, augmented reality stuff for some of the EV car stuff can hopefully be like a unique blend behind his tech, you know, enjoyment and on, tinkering. So, doesn't have a carburetor, but it's okay. So,

Jonathan: 10:05

Carburetor. Who knows what a carburetor is these days, right? Huh? The next generation. So here's one of the things that you said earlier that so resonated with me is I believe, this is not about like changing those with autism. Yes. We have to support them every way we can. It's about creating a world that's more autism ready. Right. and more autism friendly. and. Meeting autistics where they are. But can you, do you have stats or tell me about this extraordinary need for adults and whether it's around underemployment or unemployment? Um, I don't know. Did that factor in at all to, you know, to how you thought about the change you wanted to make?

Danny Combs: 10:42

you know it, it did to a degree at a time, but I feel like he was so young and I was so young, even though. It registered and it was definitely one of the founding pillars of what we wanted to do at TACT it definitely registers more now as the older he's getting, and it makes it feel that much more tangible and real in the impact we're having. Um, and it's definitely become more in focus as we've fine tuned it and gotten, um, Better at it honestly, as far as creating career opportunities for individuals and that kind of a quality of opportunity. But when he was younger, you know, you would read stats and they haven't changed. You know, that's the saddest thing, there's a office of employment here in Colorado that's doing some great stuff and I remember going to one of their meetings and hearing this was around the 30th anniversary of ada, so it's since been a couple years past that now, and talking about how, you know, there is accessibility. More so in a lot of buildings except for like our capital, um, and some other buildings like that that, you know, help accs and supporters in a variety of different circumstances. ADA's been great with that, but employment hasn't changed, and so it's like all of these initiatives and all of these programs and all of these steps that we've taken for inclusivity haven't really changed the landscape of what that looks like for the neurodivergent individuals. And that's wild to think that that's still behind even from the fact of when he was, you know, child when he was first diagnosed and where we've started so at TACT we have an 83% placement rate. It's actually 83.3 to be exact, but, um, we have a pretty good run as far as getting individuals placed, um, into careers. And hopefully we can keep that going. But if we can even change the landscape five degrees. That'll be, more than it's been achieved in decades. and it, it's about freaking time that starts taking place.

Jonathan: 12:32

I want to dig in some more on this specific, coaching and extraordinary job training programs and placements that you do, but like, why has this need not yet been addressed? If you were to pinpoint.

Danny Combs: 12:44

That's such a great question. You know, it's something we ask ourselves all the time. I know, I, I read so much, as a former musician in my past life, it's a similar conundrum in the sense of like, you look at every study that ever comes out, ever about music education, and it will tell you it makes you smarter. It increases X, Y, and Z for like your future of life. People that study music are more successful, all these different things. And yet the arts are constantly the first thing that programs cut. It makes no sense. I think of it in a similar way of, autism. Employment neurodivergent education and inclusivity, and where it's still something for whatever reason, people are afraid of and they hear that word autism and they just either have some perception in their mind of what that looks like, um, right or wrong, um, or they just are ignorant to it or, there was a study that just came out from the global disability and association that they had this thing saying the average accommodation costs less than$500 for the employer to make a change. 500 bucks. For the average and it's like for, you know, our community, a lot of times it could be more, it could be less. let's just stick with the 500. But I know we work with a lot with electricians for example, we get a lot of great companies that hire our graduates, Wayfield Sturgeon, Rexel, these great companies that hire our graduates and talking to a friend that runs Wakefield, he was telling me about a buddy of his that is inspired by what Wakefield's doing. Didn't hire a TACT grad, which is totally okay, but did embrace, hiring Neurodiverse individuals and this person's so proficient. They've done the work of four Other Neurotypicals because they're that good at their job and it's such an incredible story where they then went back to him and I'm like, man, your company's onto it because this makes so much more sense. But it's taking people that have that experience from a, I think a business perspective that are showcasing. how it's making their entire culture better and not from this programmatic, oh look, I'm clicking a d e i, um, box over here on the corner. But genuinely embracing a culture of inclusivity to actually bring our community and all of our people together, um, they're finally starting to get it, but we just need more stories about that, and we need those people to be more vocal and showcase it and not try to just hide it away and tuck it in the corner, you know? That's kind of how it feels now.

Jonathan: 15:10

what's crazy. I mean, to your point, this isn't just checking a d e I box and, um, and doing the, the right thing. This makes economic and financial sense. I mean, one, electrician, it sounds like, um, neuro divergent electrician did the work of four Neurotypical. And tell me more about what, um, Tax job, coaching and training looks like specifically, like help paint a picture of that. And then like, I'd love to share, share more stories around the successes, individual successes in, in getting placed.

Danny Combs: 15:43

well, thanks. We do it a little bit differently, um, in the sense that, you know, we work with the employers directly, to see what's real and what they're actually looking for. We don't want it to have this academic, you know, off to the side approach where it's like, we think we know what employers want, but we don't actually know what employers want. So, um, we talked with the employers directly to figure out what's authentic and what's real. And then as a small nonprofit, we serve a couple hundred kids every year, or young adults every year, but we never have more than six students per class. So we've set it up where we have a trade professional and an autism professional using R B T A B C B A, a coda, somebody with autism experience that's also there working with that trade professional and they're working together to make that training as authentic as possible towards the job. And when they do that, we're creating what we call simulation site where the students are able to simulate what it's like working for an employer, a variety of different capacities, doing the same jobs, and so they're getting the sounds, the sensations, the tooling, the language, the vocabulary, all of those things at first. And then when we get them. Going towards a job. Then we do work-based interviews and portfolios and kind of on the job training for that job. And then we have a job coach that's, you know, one-on-one in-person, side-by-side with them, which is great, as opposed to a lot of people will use, you know, zoom calls. And if that's all you have, it's better than nothing. But we try to do things in person because there's, a lot more that's, achieved when it's something in person. and then. It's kind of like a step, right? Where they've learned this skill, they've learned this trade, then they've stepped into working with the employer, they still have that tact person that's there working with them, and then that tact person kind of slowly fades out as they're working at just that employer. I. That's really simplifying it, but to kind of put it in like a linear graph, if that's even possible, just to showcase some of the steps. And then we do things like help them get tools because a lot of trades and men and women, you know, have to have their own tools and we wanna, find partners that are a, giving good wages. So the average TACT graduate has a$19.86 cents starting salary. We're finding partners that, Embrace advancement and not just looking at, you know, a position, but what is the longevity and lifespan of somebody working in that trade look like for the future. So they have a whole career and, knock on wood, there's, there's always learning and growth, but we're able to individualize a lot, which I think has helped to the success of it. Um, so yeah, it's getting closer, getting closer, still, way to go, but we're getting closer for short.

Jonathan: 18:16

so you described, electricians. What are some examples of the other trades that you're commonly placing your, your graduates in?

Danny Combs: 18:23

we do a lot with auto mechanics. That's, one of the things I think a lot of people think of tact. Cause we started it in a 58 Chevy cuz. That's mentioned my bio. I love classic cars cuz they're so freaking cool. just so much more style. so you know a lot with cars. We work with Toyota, um, which we became the first program that Toyota sponsored. that's works with neurodivergent individuals and they can actually get Toyota certified. Um, and get all of those certs that they need to actually then step into a job with a Toyota dealership. So then we have Toyota dealerships that we partner with too. So it's neat to have that alignment and kind of progression with both Toyota National and then also with the local dealerships so that the training that we're doing is pretty neat. so a lot in the auto mechanics. We work with a bunch of different, car dealerships here throughout, the Denver area as well as groups like Advanced Auto Parts and Jiffy Lubes. Gosh, we've got so many. there's 38 of our active business partners right now, so we're just starting with Excel, which we're super excited about. The Nerded diversity at works, people that are, you know, coming here to start working. Also in, in Colorado, I've set up some new things that we haven't got placed yet, but in power, which we're looking forward to that. There's 38 businesses that we personally work with. everything from the Denver airport, which is pretty cool, some of the things that they've done there as well. Um, a lot of electrical companies as you've mentioned. also things like Southwest installers doing welding type work, which we're pretty happy about as well. Um, So a bunch of different stuff kind of all over the spectrum, if you will. That pun of, uh, employers.

Jonathan: 19:53

Where my mind keeps coming back to Danny is like, what's it gonna take to expand tact to the entire country, if not the world? And, to get specific on this, what is the biggest barrier to scaling? Is it needing to build these partnerships given the intention you place into, bringing, companies into the fold? Is it, fighting enough, individuals to work with? Is it finding the coaches?

Danny Combs: 20:15

That's a great question. Um, Gosh, you know, it's, it's interesting there. There's a couple really big barriers that we at least have identified so far, but we don't even know what we don't know as we're trying to go national and we're aware of that. But the ones that we're aware of at this point is. First and foremost, you know, as a dad of a child with autism, we decided that if people wanna come to us, we work with all kinds of foundations, grantors, um, community centered boards to create scholarships and opportunities for those to come. We don't want it to ever be this fee for service where parents have done well, so they can bring their child to our program or this individual themself to bring somebody. We want it to be genuinely, attainable for all individuals to come. And so, That in itself is difficult, where all across the country, autism services are funded differently. So how do you create those pathways all across the country? There is no universal design in that sense, or at obtainability or accessibility for autism services. Um, So that's one of the barriers that we've made. If it was just fee for service, like a for-profit or a nonprofit that is, you know, a school that's just like, this is our tuition go, that would be easier, but it wouldn't be as accessible. So we try to avoid that. the second one is, you know, part of the success, like you mentioned, is having those employers that want to jump in. And so, Getting those business partners in different states or different cities. Gosh, that's hard too. That's a really hard thing to do too. So, um, those are two of the ones that we've identified that are the biggest ones. And then there's, you know, things that are equally important but also difficult. as a 5 0 1 you'd have to set up separate board of directors and then the board of directors can oversee their board of directors and there becomes all kinds of. Of, you know, mundane things that can become tricky, that are also equally important. But, you know, board of directors, for example, they're volunteers. They're giving us their time. We don't want to tax them with, okay, I need you to look over the branch in Texas and the one in North Carolina and the one in Idaho, you know, or whatever. so those are the ones that we're struggling with honestly. Um, so we'll see. We're trying to figure out how to overcome that for sure.

Jonathan: 22:34

Well, tell me more about, what it takes to bring an employer on. So if you've got like a Toyota that's already inspired to want to do this, how much training and shaping of their behavior and their program do you have to do to get them ready to accept tact graduates?

Danny Combs: 22:49

That's a great question too. You're asking good ones. Ironically, not very much. That's one of the amazing things I think, within the trades, one of the, Perks of the trades is language. For example, autism and communication. When you, when you look at how those two correlate together. Right. Um, also within the trades, English as a second language has already been embraced in a variety of different ways. Mm-hmm. So all of the language barriers that could. perhaps be difficult in like an IT setting for example, have already been overcome in a lot of skilled trades organizations because a lot of, let's say you're an electrician, well, let's just say you're a non mechanic. Everything is laid out in diagrams, color coded A, B, C, D, and it's broken down sequential. I mean, it's a task analysis, already created for you and, um, they've already. Looked at it from that perspective. So for a lot of times for them, it's like they'll bring us, their diagrams or what their scope of work that they're trying to do, and we don't even have to modify it. It's just like, oh, great. All right, thanks. This is our lesson plan for the day. Here you go, kids. Cuz I mean, they're already there in, in that regards. Now getting them to embrace, a variety of different things, could be a little bit more tricky, but, In that regard to the scope of work of the actual trade, not so much. So, for a lot of it though, it's helping them also then communicate with their staff, because sometimes there still is, you know, some unjust biases that exist within their own community culture that they're either then working on themselves or trying to address. And then, creating that culture, at least at first. But, tack just had our open house this past Friday and one of my favorite parts about it was one of our graduates that working at a local car dealership, his boss came, a bunch of his coworkers came. There was like half a dozen individuals from his company that came to the open house where he's brought so much value to the company just being himself. Like who he is, which is incredible person. And he, it's very talented that the company sees that and they've rallied behind it and made it part of their culture. So it was so cool to see his coworkers coming to our open house and being like, I love what you guys are doing. You know, this individual's been a great addition. We need more. And, you know, going from there. So, little things like that are the wins that keep you going, you know?

Jonathan: 25:09

Yeah. That's pretty extraordinary that you're creating culture change in helping companies to become part of this more autism ready world that feels so powerful. But, you know, the other thing I wanna come back to, like economic reality here, I mean, as I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's a shortage of skilled trades people.

Danny Combs: 25:28

Mm-hmm.

Jonathan: 25:29

on the other hand, I mean, some of the stats I've seen are, neurodivergent individuals are up to like 80% underemployed. So doesn't this seem like if my data is correct? It doesn't seem like a no.

Danny Combs: 25:42

For every five skilled trades minimum that leave the trade and retire only to enter the field. So like Colorado for example, for every opening, there's two individuals ready to fill it. so in the skilled trades, especially like we need people and not just people, we need to Change the stigma. I mean, still, you know, I went to college, I have a master's degree. Yay. And I'm glad I did. It was, it was great. but we have to put forward the notion that, skilled trades have value and it's not this lesser than, profession. In fact, a lot of times these individuals. Make a heck of a lot more than their blue collar counterparts, if you will. But people don't realize that because of the stigma that's around it. And it's like, do you want to go do landscaping and make six figures doing landscaping and have control of your schedule? Or do you wanna go work in an office and start fetching coffee and work your way up and you know, be at a college making 20, 30,000? when you look at like the average starting salary too. Of somebody leaving college versus somebody just entering the trades, you know, um, electricians a few years in, they're already pulling in 80 K a year. Do you wanna be a 22 year old, make an 80 k starting, or do you wanna be a 22 year old that just graduated with a quarter million dollars in debt and you're hoping that's gonna pay off either? It's fine. I mean, you, you choose what you want to choose. It's free world, you know? Go for it. you know, helping individuals know, anybody know that that is an opportunity that exists that may not have been presented to them.

Jonathan: 27:15

that kind of stigma is an entirely separate podcast, but this idea like 80 K after three years with no debt compared to like unemployed and like extraordinary debt.

Danny Combs: 27:25

exactly. And it's. it's just, it's so interesting to me when people see that that's a possibility, that they aren't aware of. I mean, um, It's, it's very real and it's very, very doable. And it's like, you know, you the cool thing, seeing our community be starting to be embraced in it with the business partners that we have that have done it, um, they're realizing it. And then, that's a whole other topic too, is changing the culture around, if they're making a certain amount of money, then they lose their benefits and SSI becomes a whole other issue and benefits counseling and that could be a whole other discussion because so many families. At least that we work with that are now getting stepped into careers, have to have those conversations and understanding what that looks like. Um, so, um, yeah, that's a whole other topic, my friend, changing the dichotomy of what that looks like. So,

Jonathan: 28:15

Totally. You know what I've always said about that? I've literally never understood why employers are responsible for. health insurance and why there isn't some other function. And I say, look, if employers are responsible for health insurance, I totally get that. But then employers should also be responsible for car insurance and for all these other things. And, um, you know, uh, in spoiler alert, I don't know. I think there's a lot to be said for a single payer system, but I'm not gonna get into that topic now, but, you know. Yeah.

Danny Combs: 28:42

Why employers do that. The sidebar conversation. So that started during the Great Depression, you know, FDR had put a wage freeze where you couldn't make any more money than you were already making. Um, so everybody was stuck, right? As far as what they were pulling in. And there was no room for advancement in the country. Everybody was frozen. And so the loophole in the law was that organizations could Pay for your health benefits, and if you no longer had to pay for your health benefits, all of a sudden it was a raise, right? Because health insurance costs companies so much money, and so everybody, then all the companies started being like, I can't pay you more than your current salary due to the law, but I can pay for your health insurance and you'll be making that much more money. And so everybody. Flipped to that. Um, and it's never flipped back. But um, yeah, that was fdr, so thanks. Great depression,

Jonathan: 29:35

Dude, you just learned me something new. I mean, it's traumatic. Having to, like, every time you move an employer and look, these days most people are moving employers every couple, few years, right? And you've gotta go find new insurance. Like that's just that, that just seems like not the kind of society like we want for ourselves.

Danny Combs: 29:52

And autism parents. That's a, that's a heavy burden. That's a heavy lift, man. So, um, for sure. that's, definitely something that weighs on people for finding gigs for sure.

Jonathan: 30:02

Hmm. Well, you know, I know the journey of, um, of entrepreneurs, of business builders is not always bright and rosy. So, Danny, what's been the most challenging part of your tech journey so far?

Danny Combs: 30:16

Oh, we should, this would be one we have over many beers, my friend, cuz there so many, uh, so many different things. But, getting TACT set up was tricky in the sense that it's such a different approach, from a lot of traditional autism. Uh, groups that are all doing amazing things. Not to put anybody down, but, uh, we heard, no, gosh, more times than I can tell you. I know insurance, we were turned down 13 times. but so many partner groups would even come to us and be like, they would just flatly say, our kids can't do this, which I think is just bluntly wrong, uh, personally, and I think TACT has proven that, but it's taken years for us to actually showcase within our own community. The capability of our kids, and what the potential that can be realized when set up for the correct opportunity for success, and recognizing that talent and strength do exist, and how do we set them up for success rather than a future that's less than they deserve. Um, businesses ironically has not been one of the, the hardest part. Getting businesses to jump on board, knock on wood, um, has been, something that's been working out. creating scholarships and opportunities for people. That's been really tricky too. And it's taken time, it's taken a lot of years to get all of these foundations and groups to jump on board and, and rightfully so. I mean, they're, supporting us with their resources and we want to be good stewards for that. And, you know, as a nonprofit, we. we're voluntarily audited every year. We have all of our financials online, like we want to be good stewards and showcase that the support that people give us, we're using those resources in a way that serves the community. Um, But, you know, getting people on board to do those things that, that's hard. And COVID happened in 2020, right? And like we had to do a complete pivot, but kept it going. And during that time period, for example, we turned into, you know, like a manufacturing facility sense that we Had our teachers manufacturing kits and we sold thousands and thousands of kits of things that we were then shipping to schools and parents at home to like keep making stuff, but like keeping people working and, you know, keeping the mission and the vision moving forward, during odd economic times. That's been really hard. That's been really, really hard. and then, finding great staff. We have an amazing staff at TACT that's been incredible. Um, they work really hard. They're, incredible humans doing amazing things, but trying to get them to where they need to be paid successfully too. I mean, one of the great ironies is our graduates are making more money than our staff and like, That's, you know, kind of the nature of nonprofits, but also not, acceptable in a lot of ways. we need to be able to pay our staff the same and that, you know, view of what is accessible and appropriate within nonprofits too. Um, You know, they're creating futures. They need to be taken care of and rewarded for the success that they're, creating for our community. And, a lot of grants, and rightfully so. Again, like we're open book, if anybody wants to look up tact, like all means do we, we're, we're available, even check it out. But a lot of grants have that 80 20 rule where it's like 80% goes towards programming, 20% towards admin. Get it. You know, some grantors sometimes don't look at having a building as. programmatic, they look at that admin and it's like, I can't have a program without a building. but a lot of them are amazing. And as things are evolving and our communities being more embraced, we have amazing partners and amazing grant tours that support us. So if any of them are watching, I hope they know how much they're appreciated. But, um, getting to this point has, it's taken a lot of time and my hair looks brown in this, but it, Jesus, it was really brown before we started this. It's gotten a lot grayer. It just takes. A lot, there's been, many times where the board of directors will come to me, you know, for a few years. My average work hours have been about 107, 110 hours per week. Um, it's too much and it shouldn't be that, but it's what's necessary to get the mission forward. So in the future, I'm hoping that we can build it where, you know, Danny doesn't have to keep working those kind of hours. That would be grace. So,

Jonathan: 34:20

That, that feels like unsustainable. You struck a nerve. So I was in the nonprofit world for seven plus years. I started an outdoor education nonprofit in, um, in, in Reno, Nevada, the Lake Tahoe area. And it's going phenomenally. Um, To this day, but this idea of an arbitrary cap on the percentage of admin hours never made sense to me. And here's why. I always ask the question. Tell me how that gives you insight into how we are best fulfilling our mission. Shouldn't the outcome be like how well you're serving to your mission as opposed to some arbitrary admin percentage?

Danny Combs: 34:54

No. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, there was a great book, um, Dan, and I'm forgetting his last name right now. Michelle will come to me after you finish the podcast. But he wrote a book called Uncharitable and it was a fantastic book. I dunno if you've ever seen his TED talk either, but he was talking about just that, where it's like the nonprofit sector makes up roughly 5 billion, throughout the country, but we're tasked with. Solving the most, you know, health problems, homelessness, unemployment, why? You know what I mean? And like, how do we attract the same talent? You know, if somebody can, a talented individual can make the same money at a non-profit versus a for profit. They might choose to come to a nonprofit and have a bigger impact, but a lot of times it's just the reality of economics where that talented person has to choose a for-profit to take care of their family in the nonprofit world, and then our humanity and culture suffers from that. I. That, that's unnecessary. So how do we create that equality where, you know, no matter what field, those people that are working to make change can also then be recognized for it and off the same level of success and same level of support they have for their families. Um, that could be a whole nother conversation or podcast too, because I think that's an interesting thing. So, um, that's been a challenge for us, for sure.

Jonathan: 36:13

Well, the other thing that struck me, you know, I'm very fond of saying, Danny, that as an entrepreneur who's, you know, put a business plan together and is out, whether you're trying to raise money, just get it started. Like you almost have to be a little bit crazy because you are trying to convince people of a need that's out there that hasn't been met, and the only way you can meet that need. Is through this organization that doesn't yet exist. But it's one thing to be an entrepreneur, say in healthcare, right, as an a, b, a provider or whatever, to start it like a, you know, a car dealership. There's an analog that our communities and funders and investors have for, for those businesses. There is no analog though, right? For tact that made it, it sounds like that much harder.

Danny Combs: 36:52

no, it, it made it exceedingly hard and even like in the nonprofit world. we just renovated our new space, which is is amazing, and all our business partners jumped up and helped us, if we went to the bank and said, Hey, can we get a loan to renovate our space? The answer would be no, because we are a nonprofit and you have to either then have, you know, some individual that has a lot of finances, that would back it up entirely at like, you know, almost a three to one type ratio. So one point million dollar renovation. Okay, great. Find me somebody with 4 million in liquidity city at the bank. And yes, I'll, you know, loan you to help the nonprofit. But even that is looked at completely differently and it's, you know, I feel bad for the banks, it's just they're put in a losing situation too, in, in that regards. Which is a weird thing to say about banks maybe, but everybody is set up for not winning in that regards. And so we can get past some of these regulatory things that are holding us down. Um, We can, we can do so much more. We could do so, so much more. And I think, you know, tact is already doing a lot. And as we move forward, one of the things that I'm optimistic in is that we're starting to create this movement that people are paying attention to and people are paying attention and they're more willing to actually, you know, pivot a little bit or, you know, open the door a little bit wider and, If we can then show how successful we can be with that, then it keeps going. And so, um, you know, we're headed in a good direction where it is now versus where it was seven years ago, very different. So.

Jonathan: 38:24

Well, Danny, what's one thing every a b a business owner should start doing and one thing to stop doing?

Danny Combs: 38:31

I think every ABA business should start looking at programs like tact and partnering with them. You know, we partner with a lot of great ABA groups and I think working together and not looking at the things we're doing is scary, but recognizing that it works in concert with what you're already doing and you know, there's so many. Perks, and benefits to working together. I think that would be something that would be really beneficial to do. I think there's a lot still that don't approach organizations like tact. That would be something that they could start doing that could really have a big impact. Um, you know, one Revel comes to mind, their ABA group that's been sending students to TACT Firefly. Um, they're amazing and by working together we are able to create some pretty unique outcomes. I think. So that was what they should start doing. What should they stop doing? Um, that's, that's a whole other thing. I think, I have double-edged sword in that, in the sense that I have it from a dad perspective and I think I. Um, I also have it from the tact perspective and I think ABA looked at with the right light and they've headed in the right direction. You know, they have some barriers and some traditions and some things they're gonna have to overcome, not from anything that they're doing wrong, but just some things that have been done in the past. So I think if they are at least cognitive of those and try to change that, I think that would be beneficial. Because, awareness and acceptance of those things and acknowledgement of them rather than protecting that they didn't take place, um, would be good. So I think there's a lot of really good, um, BCBAs out there doing super cool stuff, um, that are, they themselves held back by the stereotype and stigma of what Behavioralism looks like. So I think just acknowledging it moving forward and then partnering with groups like tact would be, um, a beneficial course towards moving towards the future. For sure.

Jonathan: 40:22

Right on. Well, Danny, where can people find you in TACT Online.

Danny Combs: 40:28

So our website is buildwithtact.org. I think that would be a great start. Um, we're also on LinkedIn, Facebook, you know, all those fun things. I don't do the Instagram, but I here we're on that too, so that would be a good one to check out as well.

Jonathan: 40:42

Right on. And you have built out a new center, as I understand it, in Englewood, Colorado, in the Denver metro area. Is that right?

Danny Combs: 40:49

Yeah, absolutely. We have this new, it's just over 18,474 square feet. And you know, the amazing thing, the town of Inglewood has jumped on board and, and recommending tact to all the businesses there. So as far as the community all coming together, I think that's a great example of that. So I hope people can check us out.

Jonathan: 41:09

Right on. And full disclosure to listeners, so Danny, um, who is based in the Denver metro area, actually lives like right up the mountain for me on Lookout Mountain. I live in Golden. So I think, Danny, you have the distinction of you are the closest person that's, I've ever interviewed. So, I have not yet seen the center, um, and I can wait to do so.

Danny Combs: 41:30

Well, great minds think alike, my friends. So we, we picked the same place to live, so it makes me happy.

Jonathan: 41:36

Bingo. Alright. Are you ready for the uh, hot take rapid fire questions?

Danny Combs: 41:40

Sure go for it.

Jonathan: 41:43

All right, Danny, you're on your deathbed. What's the one thing you wanna be remembered for?

Danny Combs: 41:49

That I think that I lived as authentically as possible, that I genuinely tried and was present and tried to be a decent human.

Jonathan: 41:59

Yeah. What's your most important self-care practice?

Danny Combs: 42:04

Playing guitar and working on cars. I have to turn a wrench, man. I have to.

Jonathan: 42:10

That's so good to know that those things, I mean they were like careers or at least a guitar play, but it can still be a passion after it's a career. Is that right?

Danny Combs: 42:18

Oh, absolutely. The, the sound of a vintage Martin guitar, that's, that's heaven for sure. Absolutely.

Jonathan: 42:25

Uh, what's your favorite song and or music genre?

Danny Combs: 42:32

You know, I don't have a favorite song that would be terrible to say, but music genre. I grew up in the Appalachian Mountains in the Blue Ridge. Bluegrass is uh, folk music, Americana. That's my home, man. That's the jam for sure.

Jonathan: 42:45

Oh man, brother, you know, which band? Um, uh, my wife and I have seen more than any other live show Yonder, mountain String Band, actually up from, uh, Boulder net.

Danny Combs: 42:55

Yeah, they are. They definitely are. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan: 42:58

we love us some bluegrass. Yeah, do do you have a Yonder Mountain story to share?

Danny Combs: 43:03

No, I was gonna there's a band called Watchhouse that used to be mandolin orange years ago. North Carolina Band. Same kind of thing, but it's like when you grow up with a locally Yeah, you, uh, you stick with that for sure. Definitely.

Jonathan: 43:14

Ugh, I love it. One of our favorites too. What's one thing you'd tell your 18 year old soft Danny?

Danny Combs: 43:22

It sounds weird. Maybe this is just my mood at the, at the time, but. I used to believe and I think when I was younger that the harder you worked, that that was gonna be it. And I think that's important for sure, but I think relationships are even that much more important. And I think surrounding yourself with good people and having relationships with those good people, cuz man, do need those people in your life. And I think, um, I credit those around me that have supported me and seen me and picked me up and, you know, especially when I'm down or even held me accountable when I'm high, um, to know that, you know what's important. So friendships, relationships, that's gonna be a thing that carries you.

Jonathan: 44:01

Mm. Beautifully said, well, if you could only wear one style of footwear for the rest of your life, what would it be?

Danny Combs: 44:10

So everybody gives me crap. I don't, I don't wear socks except when I'm doing my military stuff. I have to wear socks. But I'm a Birkenstock guy. I grew up in Asheville, North Carolina, so I still have my Birkenstock and New Balance. Those would be it. Yeah.

Jonathan: 44:26

Dude, there are very few days that went by in the early mid nineties when I was not in my pair of Birkenstocks,

Danny Combs: 44:32

Oh, hell yeah. I love that they're coming back too, but some of us never faded away. So

Jonathan: 44:38

right? Like history is all about those cycles. Danny, this has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for all you're doing for our community and for neurodivergent individuals. I appreciate you, dude.

Danny Combs: 44:48

thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me on. It's always a pleasure.